Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread

alice_ashpool

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On the one hand, if your HP pool is being depleated as a Wizard through your AC, Stoneskin, Mirror Image and Displacement/Greater Invis it is nice to be able to take 1-2 hits as you run/dimension door away. Or if somethign cracks Resist+Protection from ElementsOr if you forget some additional important protection. On the other hand +2 to Necromancy DC and Necro caster level is super.
 

alice_ashpool

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I have now completed Chapter 1 in my Informative/Completionist Style. Everything went according to plan, I think I met the optimal balance between No-reload safe and completing as much as possible. With Level 5 we can now do Tranquil River Bend, Wererats and Silent with no issue, before moving on to Troll Trouble based quests.

Provisional Order:
Loot everything in Capital, Buy Valerie the Tower Shield, Convert almost all cash to BP
Build Longhouse, Pier and maybe a couple of other buildings
Claim Outskirts
Visit Bokken, Claim resources on the way, Build Workshop
Clear Gudrin River Bridge
Clear Silent, Tranquil River and Were-rats
Troll Trouble Triggers
Dwarf Ruins Loop
Bald Hilltop Triggers
Bald Hilltop
1st of month
Upgrade advisor
Bartholemew 2nd quest
Finish Trolls

The main issue is Kaessi - it is not no-reload safe because you have to travel through a very dangerous area and are pretty much guaranteed a near-deadly ambush - combined with Kaessi's area having encounters that are kinda too tough for out level 5 Fey Enchanter Sorceress. On the other hand you need to do it soon enough to exaust the Sweet Teeth quests. Afaik doing it after the Troll Trouble main quest is probably the best option to meet both these goals.
 

alice_ashpool

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I have now completed Chapter 1 in my Informative/Completionist Style. Everything went according to plan, I think I met the optimal balance between No-reload safe and completing as much as possible. With Level 5 we can now do Tranquil River Bend, Wererats and Silent with no issue, before moving on to Troll Trouble based quests.

Provisional Order:
Loot everything in Capital, Buy Valerie the Tower Shield, Convert almost all cash to BP
Build Longhouse, Pier and maybe a couple of other buildings
Claim Outskirts
Visit Bokken, Claim resources on the way, Build Workshop
Clear Gudrin River Bridge
Clear Silent, Tranquil River and Were-rats
Troll Trouble Triggers
Dwarf Ruins Loop
Bald Hilltop Triggers
Bald Hilltop
1st of month
Upgrade advisor
Bartholemew 2nd quest
Finish Trolls

The main issue is Kaessi - it is not no-reload safe because you have to travel through a very dangerous area and are pretty much guaranteed a near-deadly ambush - combined with Kaessi's area having encounters that are kinda too tough for out level 5 Fey Enchanter Sorceress. On the other hand you need to do it soon enough to exaust the Sweet Teeth quests. Afaik doing it after the Troll Trouble main quest is probably the best option to meet both these goals.
Been refining my "optimal route"

Update to Provisional Order:
  1. Loot everything in Capital, Buy Valerie the Tower Shield, Convert almost all cash to BP
  2. Build Longhouse, Pier, Watchtower and maybe a couple of other buildings
  3. Claim Outskirts
  4. Clear Ratnook Hill (perfectly fine at level 5)
  5. Visit Bokken, Claim resources on the way, Build Workshop
  6. Clear Silent and Tranquil River bend (best to do river bend in 1 go but there is about 24h leeway on this route)
  7. Return to capital
  8. Clear Gudrin River Bridge (likewise in 1 go)
  9. Return to capital
  10. Key Change: There is enough time to do the Dwarf Ruins/Watchtower Loop here, even though you don't get Ekun (Excluding Lone House) This saves time. Should be able to get to ruins and clear on 1 rest, then rest after and do Bandit Camp then return to capital.
  11. Troll Trouble Triggers (might need to skip 1 day)
  12. Collect Jubilost and return to capital
  13. Bald hilltop triggers
  14. Complete and return to capital (Build things if Economy needs to be pushed over 20)
  15. Upgrade Councillor (Loyalty)
  16. Visit Bartholemew and collect Ekun
  17. Return to Capital
  18. Hopefully can now upgrade General (hopefully proc's Bartholemew's 2nd quest) - 14 days
  19. Complete Troll Trouble, visit Witches Swamp for Mud Bowl Quest (need to work out timings on this)
 

alice_ashpool

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Revising what I said above, you can deffo do the Watchtower loop including Lone House on one rest. This also means you can also offload your junk to Bartholemew and grab the lesser bag of holding. That should speed up the post-Bald Hiltop section marginally.
 

Antimatter

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It looks so odd right now. Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is not even included in the list of nominees for the RPG of the year.


Why? How come? RPGs are so rare, and good RPGs are among the rarest games ever.
 

alice_ashpool

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It looks so odd right now. Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is not even included in the list of nominees for the RPG of the year.


Why? How come? RPGs are so rare, and good RPGs are among the rarest games ever.
Pretty much all "Action RPGs" in the list. Shameful :LOL:. But Action RPGs are afaik so much more popular than any sort of isometric cRPG.

Anyway, WotR was the best game of 2021 for me. A modern RTwP game is like finding a unicorn. Modest nod to Solasta as well.
 

alice_ashpool

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I've been playing a little bit of Wrath of the Righteous as well, and I am reminded how different the tone is, not just in story, but in actual gameplay. I play the two games entirely differently.

Been playing a caster heavy party with a Sorcerer MC, Cam, Nenio, Daeran and Woljif, with Wenduag for good measure. Its pretty funny. People say that the difficulty is over if you Merge Angel with Oracle or something, but the real difficulty is over as soon as you take Abundant Casting on 5 of your 6 person team. There is nothing 16 casts of animate dead cannot solve at this stage. Magic just spews out with everyone casting.
 

Antimatter

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I agree that Abundant Casting is very powerful. And a good party you have there, I like nearly all of them as personalities. However, would you say that actual battles are more interesting in Wrath of the Righteous, in terms of enemies' resistances and abilities?
 

alice_ashpool

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Agree with the above, the itemization is cool and interesting and there are just so many layers of "building".

In Kingmaker, with the pressure to optimise every single little bit of time to get the best out of kingdom management the gameplay (for me) is very often:
1. Buff tank/pet for AC, other buffs for +AB/situational resistances
2. Send forward pet
3. charge in with others, fire with bows, and maybe throw a couple of encounter ending spells
4. on to the next one

For me kingmaker is all about rationing, which I feel is quite "DnD". A lot of the challenge with the encounters in Chapter 1+2 comes from that rationing and the desire for optimizing kingdom management via micro time-saves while adventuring "Can I push anothe encounter/ Can I do this while fatigued?" That sort of stuff.

Wrath on the other hand goes a bit like this:
1. Cast every damn buff you have
2. Summon 30+ monsters
3. Smash into the enemy like the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, throwing spells up the wazoo like your life depends on it.
4. Hopefully you survived, channel some energy to heal up, resurrect anyone who needs to be brought back to life
5. Dash to next encounter, repeat
6. Rest when everything is out, start the cycle again

I feel in WotR very often you need to throw everything you have, and you can rest constantly, unlike kingmaker (yes there is corruption but you can still get 3-4+ rests in, even in the largest dungeons if you need.)

Sometimes in WotR I feel like one of those WHFB goblin fanatics, swinging a giant ball and chain around uncontrollably scattering enemies and allies alike all hopped up on fungus beer. I love both but I am reminded of someone who posted about the Siege of Drezen that hours later they were physically exausted by the end of it, like they had just gone 20 rounds with the DM equivilent of Mike Tyson.
 

Antimatter

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Yeah, that I would call a very accurate description of the difference. It's interesting you think Kingmaker feels "DnD". I found that part a bit bland and boring, but I guess that is because I have no real tabletop experience. The second game is more like what I adore, eg. in BGII with SCS.
 

mlnevese

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The Mythic Paths also make a huge difference... Angel was making some things so easy (party wide immunity to corruption, poison, etc.) that I just started over with a chaotic good barbarian that is following the trickster path. And it's being much more fun. You get everything from a dimensional conclave inside your wardrobe to convincing a demon it's becoming a tree :)
 

alice_ashpool

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The Mythic Paths also make a huge difference... Angel was making some things so easy (party wide immunity to corruption, poison, etc.) that I just started over with a chaotic good barbarian that is following the trickster path. And it's being much more fun. You get everything from a dimensional conclave inside your wardrobe to convincing a demon it's becoming a tree :)
This is something I think a lot of people seem to miss when they talk about the games, and in part I just put that down to enjoying the game in a different way, but people tend to be focused on "winning builds" and rankin things by "power level". Similar to chat about BG2 - yes I know kensai mage is very powerful, yes I know Zerkage is arguably better, yes I know Blade is "better" than Jester. But that seems to miss the point - Resistance to this for me is not really about roleplaying, but about additional challenge giving additional enjoyment when you succeed.

For instance in this playthorugh I set the arbitrary restrictions that I would play an Enchantment+Melee Sorcerer 20. And that there would be no mercs or re-specing, and that I would go demon path and that I would play on Core. All of which might make someone go "but why?, would you rather not play Oracle 19/Scaled Fist 1 on angel path, you'll be much more powerful." "Or enchantment sucks, its bad, at least go Azata" - but the fun is in playing the game with some self-imposed difficulty stuff, and the additional aspect is that it forces you to look at things differently, to try different tactics. I'm reminded of Grond0 on the Beamdog Forums who refused to use Antidotes when playing BG1/2 no-reload. Absurd but also completely understandable.

I also have a personal bugbear about call of the wild mod and equivalent mods for WotR that they make the games too easy.


Also people always say set Kingdom mode to easiest... means the game doesn't hit as hard. Play on Normal once you get the hang of it and learn how to ace it imo.

/Pathfinder cRPG snob
 
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alice_ashpool

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In WotR even the most minor of battles look like this in my experience:

exfL3YR.png
 

alice_ashpool

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Also that hair is new in the base game since last time I played +++ to Owlcat for adding (a few) additional visual options. You wouldn't think Kali here supplements swinging around that huge sword with attempting to (clumsily) gore people with her invisible demon horns. Face of an angel, heart of a demon.
 

mlnevese

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I was just wondering if any monster in WoTR has ascended element... it would be interesting to be hit by something I am supposed to be immune to :)
 
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