Let's discuss replayability of RPGs

[Eternal]

My Steam account gives me mixed feelings when I look at the number of hours I have invested in playing and replaying games. During those hours I could have probably learned a couple of foreign languages, learned to play the piano, or assembled a rocket in my backyard. As someone who absolutely refuses to take any responsibility for their own life, I definitely put the blame for that on game developers and the magic of games’ replayability.

Every game designer dreams of creating a game that people will love and play for long, long hours, or, even better, years. There are games and entire game genres that focus their design precisely on the fact that you have to play and replay them over and over again (They use such classic techniques as the total randomness of everything, from the whole environment to landscape and character characteristics (RimWorld), the freedom of creativity and self-expression (Minecraft), competitiveness and breaking records (CS:GO), unpredictability of results (Kerbal Space Program), etc.)

But what about RPGs? The randomness in them is usually not high (moderate at best), you are unlikely to meet fundamentally new characters during repeated playthroughs, locations don’t change in any meaningful way… So what makes you return to your favorite worlds?

For me, I remember how wonderful different character backstories in Dragon Age: Origins felt (btw, it’s DAO’s 12 anniversary today!) I just couldn't start the actual game (after the prologue) until I had tried every single one of those backstories. It felt so new and fresh all the time, as if several games were merged into one. But sometimes I give in because of the variety of some hidden content (no offense meant if you love this). If I don’t have an option to respec my perks, points and abilities, I usually start to sulk childishly at the developers. “You are mischievous! You hide content from me. I didn't know that I might need this particular alignment to solve the quest in the way I want to solve it. Now this strange and annoying crack has appeared in my gaming experience because of you!" It's irrational, but hidden content, under certain conditions, can even scare me away from replaying pretty good games. Perhaps I just don’t understand how exactly I should reason with it, in order to accept such situations in a more friendly and calm manner.

What makes a game replayable for you personally? And how important is replayability at all? What do you think about hidden content (eg. you chose the wrong class/alignment/origin, and now you cannot get this quest and/or finish it in a certain way)? Is this a reason for you to explore the game again, or do you get annoyed you can't do everything at once? Do you get bored when replaying what you have already seen for the Xth time? Do you think there are non-replayable RPGs and what sins must they commit to get such a verdict from you?

 

[alice_ashpool]

it's a really interesting thought, since they are the games I come back to over and over.

A couple of thoughts:
For some people it might be for the same reason we re-read the same books - a comfortable story we know what is going to happen in, and more so we can guide a sort of perfect play-through

For me I have realized that on top of that it is all about mastery - the idea of the perfect playthough combined with the often punishing D20 system of many RPGs is a heady mix. I return because my Favorite RPGs: Infinity Engine Games, Owlcat Games, Morrowind offer a sort of limitless play-style as well as what feels like a hidden "puzzle game" - once you peel away the story elements you have a game that you can play to "win" within a framework of self imposed challenges, even though people don't often talk about winning in RPGs. I think this is why I gravitate towards No-reloading and playing around in Legacy of Bhaal mode or Unfair mode. I will quite happily restart the same game many many times until I feel like I've mastered the first chapter/section before progressing. I understand this is not particularly "normal" but its rewarding, in as much as computer games can be.

For me the most important part of replayability for BG1 and IWD, the games I have probably played the most, is the ruleset + combat implementation + encounter design within a framework of a story that really captured my interest in the beginning.

The rpgs i havent enjoyed replaying are the ones where the combat system + character development feels hollow - Oblivion is a good example - nothing quite takes the wind out of my sails like perfectly level scaled enemies.

 

[mlnevese]

I think replayability walks a thin line between being open and giving you an objective. Make it too open and you may just get lost on the 100000 side quests and never finish the game. Also having new things to discover or a completely different path to play may help me try to play something a second time

 

[alice_ashpool]

^^ Interestingly i think that Skyrims "Radiant" quest system actually decreases replay-ability. Endless procedurally generated quests within the world framework ended up feeling like I was toiling in the quest mills - and after the 10th or so thats when I looked it up and found that all those errands were just spat out by the code for ever.

 

[mlnevese]

^^ Interestingly i think that Skyrims "Radiant" quest system actually decreases replay-ability. Endless procedurally generated quests within the world framework ended up feeling like I was toiling in the quest mills - and after the 10th or so thats when I looked it up and found that all those errands were just spat out by the code for ever.

It's a little like Fallout 4... So many side quests I never finished the game... Sacred 2 was another one where it happened. Although these are action games, they have a deep root in traditional RPGs as well.

 

[Eternal]

Thanks for your answers! But I have more questions if you allow. Since you are good at replaying games, can I ask whether this hypothetical situation is possible: you have completed a game (let’s expand the question to allow any genre, not just RPG), you liked it, everything is fine, no annoying radiant quests (I agree with you there: why did they include it?), no auto-scaling (Aren't bandits in Daedric armor adorable? /s) and other gameplay hindrances, but for some reason you don't want to replay it? “A good game, I can recommend it to my friends, but I definitely won't replay it.” I mean, can subjectively non-replayable games be good? Or is replayability a logical reflection of the game’s high quality? What would make you refuse mastering your skills in an excellent combat system or finding additional ways to play? Maybe its atmosphere being too dark, or a bad ending, or a stupid story, or unnecessary long chapter? Do you have experience of playing good but not replayable games?

 

[alice_ashpool]

Witcher 3 (and i suppose witcher 2 as well though it has been a long time since I played that) is a personal example I can think of - there is lots of opportunities for mastery there, but for some reason I have no desire to play again, and only ever got as far as Skellige in my first play through, but undoubtable when measured up against other games Witcher 3 is critically considered to be one of the all time greats. Lack of character customization - both in "class/skills" and also allways "being Geralt" is a big part of why I don't want to play again despite the fact that the world and story is so engaging. I kind of consider character customization to be one of the most important parts of any rpg - its creating something, and its creative in the abstract, and Witcher 3 lacks that, even though it has everything else that might make a game a great RPG.

 

[mlnevese]

I think my main problem with replaying a game I just finished is that the story is still too fresh in my memory. It would be like reading a book I just finished. That's where multiple endings and multiple paths may help.

Scaling enemies is a horrible idea. What is the point of you getting to epic levels of power if the entire world is epic as well? I prefer the way Pathfinder does it. Some areas DO HAVE enemies you can't fight at lower levels. The game won't prevent you from going there but you should be smart enough to decide to leave and come back later

 

[WiseGrimwald]

There are some games that just become too easy. Golden axe warrior being one that I never play now. Ultima 4 was great for several replays but the game engine wasn't great. Baldur's Gate is great for replays as there are so many mods that change it enough to keep it interesting. I have now reverted to having few mods but that will probably change in the future once I am more proficient in SoD. I have yet to finish SoD in no reloads. That in itself makes it replayable.

I didn't like the NWN game engine so don't play it.

 

[Cahir]

There are very few games that I was able to finish more than once. Let's see.
- Baldur's Gate 1 (shit, I realized that in reality I finished BG2 only once!)
- Icewind Dale (EE)
- Planescape Torment
- Dragon Age: Origins
- Might and Magic 6 and 7

And that's probably it. Wow, that sucks.

 

[Cahir]

Next game that have a potential for reply ability for me is WoTR (I know, I'm shocked too). In my current run I want to do Gold Dragon mythic path, but I see a Lich path is something that I must experience at some point, definitely. This is, to my utmost surprise, a really great game. I plan to write my thoughts about it here soon.

 

[alice_ashpool]

This is, to my utmost surprise, a really great game. I plan to write my thoughts about it here soon.

Agreed. Looking forward to your thoughts.

 

[Antimatter]

Ok, replayability. Actually, until recently, I used to think all games were quite replayable. That was partially due to the fact I hadn't played that many games.

I've grown up with games like Diablo 2 and Baldur's Gate 2, playing these games over and over for more than 10 years. I would say it's the nostalgia factor, first and foremost.

Then, there is also a factor of familiarity with everything. Sometimes, due to RL problems, people just want to get lost in games. And if the world is stressful, they would want to spend time in something that is well-known to them.

The player's age is also a factor. When you don't have children, when you don't work for 10 hours a day, you have plenty of time. You can restart the game as many times as you want, mastering your combat skills and rerolling the dice. The time you have for playing and replaying games substantially decreases with more work and parentage going your way.

So if there is no nostalgia, no big stress around, and no dozens of free hours per day, chances to pick the same game just to replay its moments or roll for better item stats become lower.

There is also some level of competitiveness, of course. I mean games like Heroes of Might & Magic, Age of Empires, where you play against other human opponents and want to get better with every attempt. There is never a truly end to such games, there is never "a final attempt". But RPGs can also be played with competitiveness in mind. Can I beat this game without reloads? Can I beat it with a lvl 1 character?

Also, can I complete the game with role-playing restrictions? This is not competitiveness, but this is a new task the player takes. Until this task is complete, the player will continue. That one final ideal playthrough. That one final party. It's similar to the closure term in Gestalt psychology.

But some games also affect you in a way similar to how a good movie or a good real-life event will. I enjoyed Disco Elysium a lot, hours spent in that game flew as if I didn't look at the time at all. But that story came to an end, and I still remember every bit of it, every bit of emotion the dialogues there caused. Cyberpunk 2077 became the game that affected me the most, of all games I have played. Its characters felt real, they felt like real people. What happened there, in that game, to my character, felt as if it was happening to me. Every choice (well, nearly) felt as if it were I deciding them, not "characters". I still remember intense scenes from there as if I saw them last week.

I don't want to replay these games because I don't want to tarnish my experience with them. When I played through them, I enjoyed every second. Every decision I took, I was happy about it. I tried everything and I enjoyed what I got. I am not sure trying them out again, now, would give me what I seek.

And I seek new emotions. I seek new adventures. I seek new stories and new friends. With the time being limited, I would prefer to explore a new world.

So yes, definitely, there are games I can wholeheartedly recommend but I don't intend to replay them, yet.

 

[mlnevese]

Strategy games are probably some of the most replayable games out there, at least the well done ones. Once you learn how the AI plays and can beat it easily there is always a multiplayer option to have humans challenge you... Normally that's when you learn you just thought you knew the game

 

[Chronicler]

I mean, it won't get me any cred with the hardcore gamer crowd or whatever, but those I can play those Pokemon games again and again. Especially when you start bringing nuzlockes into it.

And it's a good thing too, because they're all mostly the same game as eachother.

Final Fantasy 1 is another good one. It's a great game on its own, but once you hook it up to Jeff Ludwig's Rebalancing Patch it's just a whole other beast. It's not necessarily that each playthrough is dramatically different from the one before. It's more like comfort food.

 

[Selerel]

For me personally, I've always been drawn to the concept of infinite variability WITHIN a defined set of rules or structures. I don't know why, but there's something about it that's I'm drawn to. Something about the butterfly effect and how small choices changed the big picture outcome. The balance of unpredicability vs. predictability. My other main interests and hobbies:

Jam Bands (Grateful Dead/Phish) - A finite catalog of songs, but played differently every time over the course of decades and decades. The song is the song...but one live version will never be the same as another. It's novelty within constancy.

Sports - A very specific set of rules and goals. However, no competition will ever be identical, even with the same exact teams and same exact players. Each sports game is novel, even though they're doing the same thing each time.

RPGs - Well, same thing. There's the story and the coding, which doesn't change fundamentally. Baldur's Gate for example, I can roleplay a Lawful Good Inquisitor who is very aggressive and forceful, and then a Lawful Good Inquisitor who is more reticent and thoughtful, and by the end of Throne of Bhaal, it will be an entirely different party make-up, entirely different equipment, different quests completed, etc. I love extracting infinite variability from a game that's 20 years old. Like I said...something clicks in the "satisfied" portion of my brain. I can get something NEW while still basking in the comforts of familiarity.

 

[mlnevese]

The problem with RPGs is that you may get tired of repeating the same story over and over... I often get at least a year before I try to play something again.

 

[m7600]

My favorites are Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate 2 due to the stories, but the ones I've replayed the most are Icewind Dale and Diablo 2. Kind of weird how that works. What I think would be really interesting is an RPG in which the story is randomly generated. I don't think it would be possible to make it as complex as PS:T, at least not right now. But in a 100 years or so, who knows?

 

[Nimran]

The actual list of games that I have completed is:
BG2 once
BG DA many times
BG DA2 once
Mass Effect 3 (not 1 or 2 though) once
Dragon Age Origins many times
Dragon Age 2 once
On the Japanese side:
Every main Pokémon game pre-gen 4 many times
Every main Pokémon game post-gen 5 once
Dynasty Warriors 3, 4, 5, and 7 (using most of the characters)
Samurai Warriors 1 and 2 (using most characters)
Mystic Heroes (an old Koei game that was like Dynasty Warriors with magic) once
Tales of Symphonia many times
Tales of Symphonia DotNW once
Tales of Graces F many times
Tales of Vesperia many times
Tales of Xilia once

The last game that I had completed was Pokémon Sword and Shield. The first game I had completed was BG DA.

I’ve played many other games, but never completed them, largely because my attention span is that of a squirrel.

 

[mlnevese]

One thing that is worthy mentioning is that it's not necessary to finish a game to enjoy it. For instance, I prefer the low leel side of most RPGs so it's not uncommon for me to play just the first chapters with many different characters.