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Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader & now also Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresy - a new cRPG from Owlcat Games
- Thread starter Antimatter
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alice_ashpool
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Oh wow. That is real cool. I like rogue trader. Seriously wondering about the ruleset they are going to use though - the pnp one is pretty wild.
alice_ashpool
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Fluff from website:
You will take on the role of a Rogue Trader, a scion of an ancient dynasty of daring privateers, that reign over their own merchant empire and explore the fringes of Imperial space with the blessing of the Emperor Himself. Thanks to their Warrant of Trade - the Rogue Trader is endowed with privileges and power beyond imagination as well as the task of expanding the borders of the Imperium. At their disposal is a gargantuan voidship of immense power and innumerable servants and personnel ready to do the bidding of their lord. Their adventures begin in the vast Koronus Expanse - a treacherous region of unexplored space at the edge of Humanity’s domain.
Exploration will bring the protagonist to mysterious lost and forgotten worlds as well as numerous planets claimed by humanity - from lush Agri-Worlds to steel-clad Forge Worlds, all of them ready to be claimed for your burgeoning merchant empire or plundered for their riches. While travelling between the stars, get ready to come across potential allies and dangerous enemies of the Imperium, Chaos cults and alien Xenos counting among the most treacherous and deadly.
You will make fateful decisions that affect the lives of entire worlds. You will prove your strategic and tactical skills in high-impact turn-based battles against powerful opponents.
No Rogue Trader travels alone: on this dangerous journey into the unknown, you will meet faithful and sophisticated companions. Imagine fighting alongside a mighty power armoured Space Marine, a lethal Aeldari Ranger, or even a courageous Sister of Battle armed with bolter and ardent prayer - these characters and many others will join you. Become a Rogue Trader endowed with great authority, discover new worlds and shape the future of the Imperium! Join this fantastic story!
Urdnot_Wrex
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Uncle Wrex wants a glowing monocle.
Okay to add a more serious reply:
This looks really promising. I like the setting, the graphics style, the cool combination of sci-fi tech and fantasy, and hope that Warhammer background knowledge won't be required.
Okay to add a more serious reply:
This looks really promising. I like the setting, the graphics style, the cool combination of sci-fi tech and fantasy, and hope that Warhammer background knowledge won't be required.
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alice_ashpool
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Same. Would be nice to have a 40k game without a huge amount of 40k baggage. That's why Rogue Trader seems like a good pick imo. More space exploration on the frontier than everyone's preconceived ideas of how, exactly and unbendingly, warhammer 40k "should be". Just my 2c.
alice_ashpool
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Some interesting things about the original FFG rogue trader system - if that is what they are actually going to use. I have the book lying around and it is cool, but deffo a rpg designed with tabletop in mind.
D100 system
9 Stats: Weapon Skill, Ballistic skill, strength, toughness, agility, intelligence, perception, willpower, fellowship
Homeworld choices for small changes to character (race equivilent)
"Birthrights" as additional modification
You also have classes (called career paths):
Rogue Trader - Ships captain
Arch millitant - Combat expert
astropath - Specialist "Mage" who can communicate long distances across space. One of 40k's gimmicks is that using magic is very dangerous, and that "magic using" characters are almost as dangerous to themselves and their allies as to their enemies. But astropaths tend to have more of a lid on it than other types.
explorator - Technophilic Engineers with a strong religious bent. Half-human/half-machine
missionary - Clerics of the non-magical sort. More preacher than divine conduit
navigator - Another 40k gimmick. Pseudo-mages/kineticists/diviners who navigate for space-ships.
seneschal - Administrator/Accountant/Trade Specialist/Rogue who runs the finances and trade of the ship
void master - Runs the ship, jack of all trades, master of... all too?
I do not know how this would work with MC - are you always a Rogue Trader? And the classes are all cool, very different from the Pathfinder/D&D mould.
Lots and lots of Skills - I wonder how they will simplify this
Lots and lots of talents - feat equivalent - but purchased centrally with XP.
Different Skills and talents become available as you level up.
Experience can be spent on:
Stat increases (+5)
Skill (increases)
Talents
All XP from a central pool goes into these three, rather than having a three-fold of stat increases every X levels, Skill points and feats.
Prediction is a ship-maintaining side as the "kingdom management" or perhaps a "Rogue-traders realm". Or both. I'm excited to see what It turns out as. What I really want is for Owlcat to step their Role-playing up - more choices. They don't even need to have long term impacts, but more choices. Imo WotR wend sideways from kingmaker rather than forwards - They have shown they can do the crunch well, if janky, but now do the RP bit of cRPG pls!
D100 system
9 Stats: Weapon Skill, Ballistic skill, strength, toughness, agility, intelligence, perception, willpower, fellowship
Homeworld choices for small changes to character (race equivilent)
"Birthrights" as additional modification
You also have classes (called career paths):
Rogue Trader - Ships captain
Arch millitant - Combat expert
astropath - Specialist "Mage" who can communicate long distances across space. One of 40k's gimmicks is that using magic is very dangerous, and that "magic using" characters are almost as dangerous to themselves and their allies as to their enemies. But astropaths tend to have more of a lid on it than other types.
explorator - Technophilic Engineers with a strong religious bent. Half-human/half-machine
missionary - Clerics of the non-magical sort. More preacher than divine conduit
navigator - Another 40k gimmick. Pseudo-mages/kineticists/diviners who navigate for space-ships.
seneschal - Administrator/Accountant/Trade Specialist/Rogue who runs the finances and trade of the ship
void master - Runs the ship, jack of all trades, master of... all too?
I do not know how this would work with MC - are you always a Rogue Trader? And the classes are all cool, very different from the Pathfinder/D&D mould.
Lots and lots of Skills - I wonder how they will simplify this
Lots and lots of talents - feat equivalent - but purchased centrally with XP.
Different Skills and talents become available as you level up.
Experience can be spent on:
Stat increases (+5)
Skill (increases)
Talents
All XP from a central pool goes into these three, rather than having a three-fold of stat increases every X levels, Skill points and feats.
Prediction is a ship-maintaining side as the "kingdom management" or perhaps a "Rogue-traders realm". Or both. I'm excited to see what It turns out as. What I really want is for Owlcat to step their Role-playing up - more choices. They don't even need to have long term impacts, but more choices. Imo WotR wend sideways from kingmaker rather than forwards - They have shown they can do the crunch well, if janky, but now do the RP bit of cRPG pls!
alice_ashpool
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This is the "companion art" teaser - similar to for WotR
Clockwise from top we have a Rogue Trader (MC?), A female navigator (with staff) - you can see mutated fingers and her third eye covered, A female eldar ranger with a ranger long-rifle, A Sister of Battle with chainsword + bolter, a Grey Wolves Space Marine with axe, and a psyker of some sort (not astropath I don' think since not missing eyes) dressed similar to the rogue trader. They are fighting Dark Eldar, mostly wytches but also some regular warriors. Outside you can see a big ol' space battle involving Imperial Navy ships
This pre-alpha screenshot is my favorite since it gives that exploring ancient planets feel that Rogue Trader wants:
Clockwise from top we have a Rogue Trader (MC?), A female navigator (with staff) - you can see mutated fingers and her third eye covered, A female eldar ranger with a ranger long-rifle, A Sister of Battle with chainsword + bolter, a Grey Wolves Space Marine with axe, and a psyker of some sort (not astropath I don' think since not missing eyes) dressed similar to the rogue trader. They are fighting Dark Eldar, mostly wytches but also some regular warriors. Outside you can see a big ol' space battle involving Imperial Navy ships
This pre-alpha screenshot is my favorite since it gives that exploring ancient planets feel that Rogue Trader wants:
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alice_ashpool
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The potential positives are a given for me - but here are some of my concerns:
1. No rtwp. Feels a bit like the end of an era. Turn based crpgs are now ten a penny, there are just so many - and most of them are dull dull dull. They feel slow. Just played Encased which commits the combination sins of boring turn based, tedious crafting system tied to endless looting compulsion, and XP for searching containers complete with a "searching in progress bar". Absolute padding. Haven't had a decent story trashed by meaningless game-play in a long time. On the plus side there have been some decent turn based games imo: shadowrun, solasta et al. Owlcat RTWP is dead, may it rise again.
2. Games Workshop seems to flog their licence to anyone theses days which has resulted in a slew of mediocre titles. Many 40k fans are... "lame" in a way that dnd/pathfinder fans do not have that sort of reputation. And the route that 40k has gone down in recent years has been.... uninspiring. 40k feels like a victim of its own mythology at this point. At least Owlcats have gone with the best - the FFG ttrpg books were a brief 2nd golden age imo.
1. No rtwp. Feels a bit like the end of an era. Turn based crpgs are now ten a penny, there are just so many - and most of them are dull dull dull. They feel slow. Just played Encased which commits the combination sins of boring turn based, tedious crafting system tied to endless looting compulsion, and XP for searching containers complete with a "searching in progress bar". Absolute padding. Haven't had a decent story trashed by meaningless game-play in a long time. On the plus side there have been some decent turn based games imo: shadowrun, solasta et al. Owlcat RTWP is dead, may it rise again.
2. Games Workshop seems to flog their licence to anyone theses days which has resulted in a slew of mediocre titles. Many 40k fans are... "lame" in a way that dnd/pathfinder fans do not have that sort of reputation. And the route that 40k has gone down in recent years has been.... uninspiring. 40k feels like a victim of its own mythology at this point. At least Owlcats have gone with the best - the FFG ttrpg books were a brief 2nd golden age imo.
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I would disagree about the TB combat. I guess at its core it comes down to whether you enjoy such combat or not, so no worries if you just like RtwP. But in my opinion, designing the game for TB is the right move. TB combat, when done right, is much more strategic. Fewer spam encounters, more thoughts put into enemies and exact combat scenarios. I'm happy they're doing this.
The Pathfinder games were a nod to old BG games. Now, Owlcat have 2 games behind them, they are a name of their own, and they are free to explore whatever they want, not being tied by old BG references.
The Pathfinder games were a nod to old BG games. Now, Owlcat have 2 games behind them, they are a name of their own, and they are free to explore whatever they want, not being tied by old BG references.
alice_ashpool
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I just prefer seeing things play out simultaneously. Its a realism thing. Real battles are fluid and chaotic. Turn based always had that push-me-pull-you absurdity that I can't get away from. Don't get me wrong, there are some turn based games that I like, but there are also a whole host of mediocre ones where their issues are magnified by their turn based nature.
alice_ashpool
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I think I could sum it up like this: I turn-based, you, the player spend a lot of time doing nothing. You watch the computer take its turns. This is especially egregious in BG3 with those large battles. In RtwP there is very little down time since you the player are always controlling the flow of the game through pausing and issuing commands while the enemies turns happen simultaneously with yours.
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Sure, fair enough. I understand that it matters to you. I can accept that battles are not realistic and I'm playing a chess board.
alice_ashpool
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I getcha. And it's still my second favourite way to play these games. Solasta, BG3 and Shadowrun all show that they can be good. But these days every time I see the words "with tactical turn based combat" my eyes roll back almost as far as they do when someone says "open world with in-depth crafting system".
alice_ashpool
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Also, if anyone is minorly interested you can play the half-made, permanently in hiatus cyoa game adaptation I made using the Dark Heresy ruleset. Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader ttrpg's were built using the same system by Fantasy Flight games. Dark Heresy came 1st. This was a test to see if I could adapt a ttrpg ruleset to a text-based cyoa game. I shelved it after Games Workshop changed their T&C on "fanfiction games", but its so low key that I left it up on the hosting site. Only around 500h of work for nothing 
https://dashingdon.com/play/alicechan/holy-ordos-v04/mygame/
https://dashingdon.com/play/alicechan/holy-ordos-v04/mygame/
alice_ashpool
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I'm the last of a dying breed it seemsIf I'm fighting a dozen trash opponents that do not even require my powers or abilities, I go real time... for everything else, Turn Based
Urdnot_Wrex
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I agree with alice that real time combat is more realistic, but the realistic part of the game is the story to me, not necessarily the combat. I can enjoy an engaging story and look at combat as a board game, where I can keep a clear head, move pieces about, look at the turn order and decide carefully which move makes more sense.
Let's face it, "realistic" combat would be a bloody mess. With the way I pause several times per second in games like the Baldur's Gate series to issue commands, it's not more immersive, it just makes micromanagement that much more complicated.
Sure, time is an issue, important fights in games like Divinity:Original Sin can take a while, but that's okay with me.
Games made for turn-based combat, at least the ones that are well done, won't let you fight 300 1 HP rats in a basement, except maybe once as a joke.
I can understand, though, that some people find such combat systems tedious and don't have the patience for it.
Let's face it, "realistic" combat would be a bloody mess. With the way I pause several times per second in games like the Baldur's Gate series to issue commands, it's not more immersive, it just makes micromanagement that much more complicated.
Sure, time is an issue, important fights in games like Divinity:Original Sin can take a while, but that's okay with me.
Games made for turn-based combat, at least the ones that are well done, won't let you fight 300 1 HP rats in a basement, except maybe once as a joke.
I can understand, though, that some people find such combat systems tedious and don't have the patience for it.