How do you feel about tabletop?

Balrog99

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Can you use Divine Favor with that bow?
Looks like it. I found this on D&D Beyond.

This main benefit of this spell over Divine Smite is that it is usable with ranged attacks, while Divine Smite is not. Very handy for Dex-based paladins, and moreover if you fight from a distance you are more likely to maintain your concentration. Dual wielding doesn't work very well with it, since it uses your bonus action and you won't be able to dual wield until next round. On the other hand, dual wielding is great with with Improved Divine Smite gained at level 11.
 

Balrog99

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3rd session last night. It was time for our spellcasters to shine. Our resident wizard MVP got most of the kills with fireballs and our druid was the runner-up with lightning bolts, summoning a sabre-tooth tiger and direwolf shapeshift. It sure makes a difference when you're battling outdoors instead of in a dungeon. My paladin, our dwarf fighter and half-orc barbarian were largely irrelevant instead of being the badasses. I even had the opportunity to blow the dust off my longbow! 😆
 

over_easy_eggs

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Really late to the party, I know.

I grew up in a relatively tech-distant rural environment, and I don't even know if D&D was popular in the 80s and 90s in Germany. I was one of those who learned of its existence through Baldur's Gate 2 first. There was a different P&P system called DSA ("Das Schwarze Auge"= The Black Eye) in a fantasy world and I knew people who played it, but I only read the books back then.

I found out a few years ago that a bunch of guys loosely connected to my work cycle have a role-playing group that includes D&D and stuff, but I was never tempted to ask them if I could join. Time is always an issue, and my energy for socializing with strangers because of a potentially common hobby is next to 0.

I think that for everyone past student age, it's simply too difficult to coordinate schedules and find enough time for anything.
I don't really have friends IRL, I have a few nice colleagues who I like to interact with at work, but it's maybe twice a year that we meet for a coffee or to share a bottle of wine.

I like interacting with people on this forum for example, and online friends are just as real as friends who live in the same town, but in general I think leisure time activities, and life in general, it's not so much about what you do, it's more about what kind of people you spend time with.
I like running for example, but I won't join the local group because they're either too ambitious or my kid used to kick theirs at school. I'd rather run alone, thanks.

As for meeting people online, it's great and there are many possibilities, but commitment to a fixed schedule, especially across time zones, is a limiting factor. The multi-player experience mentioned in another post is one I won't forget, but to imagine any kind of group activity that includes 5 people or more? I'd say that's next to impossible.

I have found a cooperative fantasy board game though where you have to play with a party and have a few campaigns to choose from, and I plan to force my children to give it a try at least.
Yeah one of my friends and I recently got talking about holding a D&D session with a bunch of our high school mates but it's tough having everyone's schedule line up. Though I was thinking of bringing up the possibility of a one-off session rather than a full campaign. We're pretty new to D&D and the most experience I have is watching a couple of streams of people playing it. If anyone has any suggestions or opinions on one-off sessions would love to hear them!

Also could you drop the name of that cooperative fantasy board game am kinda interested in checking it out haha.
 

Urdnot_Wrex

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Also could you drop the name of that cooperative fantasy board game am kinda interested in checking it out haha.

It's a German game but I just checked, it seems to have been published in other languages as well, in English it is called "Legends of Andor". It was first published in 2012 but has received a few expansions over time. I only have the base game but even that allows for several campaigns, and the good thing is they can all be played in one session, so while you don't have an actual RPG with huge storytelling or character development, you also don't have the problem of coordinating and scheduling regular meetings to stay on track.
 

inryu13

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Also late to the party, but yea like InGameScientist, I'm on the other side of the table here where it's quite difficult to commit to campaigns for any ttrpgs. Not even short ones, unless it's really something extensively planned, like a free weekend morning, and even then I personally would only be able to join /if/ I'd still have some energy left afterward for my other irl things. And you know it'll be tons of fun too. Like, you know you're going to have a lot of fun when you're actually there but it's so hard to just do it and prioritize it over other things.

That being said, I think if a bunch of people's main type of game out of all their games, along with other hobbies is ttrpgs, I think that's when there's a chance for it to work out. 'Cause it becomes a priority that they can't go through the week without. Like personally for me right now that's one of my sports, I can't go through a week without it, so if people feel that way about the ttrpg it'll work out. It's just also hard to find people like that

Not to say anything negative about people like me of course, it's just that at this time we all already have priorities set, and stuff we regularly do to keep sane and fight off mental illness (for some), and it's hard to just change anything when it's not a priority. I will say though, that it's possible to do new things. It's just brick wall hard T^T
 

Zaxares

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I first got introduced to tabletop (and D&D in general) when I was like only 6 or 7. We had a family gathering at my uncle's place, and several of my cousins were setting up a game. Naturally, none of them wanted to spend time babysitting the annoying little kid asking a dozen questions per minute, so one of my cousins just handed me the Monster Manual so I could flip through it. I was fascinated by the cover art, and all the pictures of the fantastical monsters inside. I even read through as much of the descriptions as I could, although a fair bit of the vocabulary was beyond me at the time. I got so engrossed in it that I wound up begging my cousin to let me bring the book home so I could finish reading it. XD After that, I bugged my cousin to let me join his game until he finally caved and agreed to run a short solo adventure for me (and he took GREAT pleasure in trying to kill me by sending all kinds of monsters and traps against me. It's a wonder that I was still interested in D&D after that. XD)

Fast forward some 30+ years and I've played many games both as a player and DM (though I much prefer being the DM). I would say that the tabletop experience is like nothing you'll ever achieve in a CRPG. There's the joy of hanging out with friends, of course, but in tabletop games you'll have players come up with the most random, novel, sometimes stupidest ideas you'll ever hear, but you decide to run with it anyway, and the resulting hijinks will result in memories and stories you'll be telling for years to come. :) Sadly, because it involves so much scheduling from multiple people, the older you get, the harder it becomes as people grow up, find jobs, start a family etc. My own group disbanded some years ago after one of our players moved to another town to start a new job, and another one became a parent, and I haven't really had the time to join or put together a new group. But if you can find the time and energy, I would say the experiences are well worth the effort. :)
 

WarChiefZeke

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Nowadays I am almost always DM to new players who want to get into it, but I still enjoy it. We ended a 2+ year long campaign recently. The players wanted large squads/army rules near the end so I ended up doing a few mass-scale battles using the Warhammer 40K rules, which are perfect for it.
 

OrlonKronsteen

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I have had a resurgent interest in TTRPGs, for some strange reason. Probably because I've been getting random TTRPG videos inserted in my YouTube feed (like the one I posted in the industry news thread). I'm glad I searched to see if there was a TTRPG thread here before making this post, as I'd forgotten about this one.

It's strange that I have this interest, seeing as I'll never have time to play TT myself. Also, I'm so out of touch with it - surely more so than the rest of you - that I'm really posting because it would be cool to hear your insights.

My understanding of the industry is extremely limited. But, D&D is still, of course, in the hands of Wizards, which isn't good, for obvious reasons. I recently discovered from the video below that, D&D - and I'm talking about the Tabletop game, believe it or not - is becoming an online subscription service. WTF? I'm sure you all know more about this than me, but, from my limited understanding, a subscription only gives you one or two weeks of early access to new books, depending on what tier you subscribe to. Who on earth would pay, rather than waiting a week or two, SMH.



Anyway, D&D looks to be fully enshittified at this point.

Meanwhile, there are all kinds of TT alternatives. Too many to even wrap my mind around. And something known as Old School Renaissance (OSR), which is a movement geared at kicking it old school. Given that I don't know what new school gaming is about, I'm not sure what that means entirely, and I haven't had the inclination to wade through the internet to find out. As always, I'd rather hear your take on it, anyway. What are your thoughts on the TTRPG industry in 2026? Anyone still playing? Are there any new systems that you like?
 

JustKneller

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I would say that enshitification has multiple tiers in tabletop at this point. The Mount Everest of enshitification is obviously WotC. I could go into detail on this, but the short version is that their market is highly susceptible to the glam of product design and also quite disconnected from the hobby's history. Stranger Things also added fuel to that fire. So it goes.

Then there's the indie enshitification. The indie (i.e. self-published) market is such a tiny, insignificant sliver compared to the professional market segment. But, you can apply Sayre's Law to this scene. I would say that I've seen things in this scene that are just as reprehensible and shady as WotC's practices, but they are more likely to fly under the radar because the stakes are so small. However, among pure gamers (as opposed to gamer/"designers") there is a growing antipathy towards the indie scene. For example, there is a well known entry to the scene that has frequently been criticized by players for going overboard generating their own hype and falling way short on the *-+deliverables.

And then there's the culture tier of enshitification, and OSR is a part of that. Long story short, OSR wasn't something that started. It was always there, and then it was eventually branded, and then it was watered down by indie designers co-opting the label out of desperation for additional visibility for their (likely sub-standard) product. It's all a mess. There's a split in the OSR where some of the OGs are rejecting the folks watering it down, which has created a new subgroup (NSR or NuSR) to highlight the difference. But then you have people who are put in that group whining and insisting that they are OSR, regardless of their critical reception. Professor DM (your video) and other YT creators have actually become a part of the problem. Most of these channels are monetized so, once again, they are following the money and not what the hobby actually needs. I think the only YTer that I used to watch that I still hold in high regard is Bandit's Keep. But, his channel isn't about the scene or game reviews, it's about creating clickable content.

I'm talking about the Tabletop game, believe it or not

Therein lies the rub. From the early days, TTRPGs have been a DIY hobby. It does not lend itself well to commodification. Meanwhile the more visible aspects of the culture are usually trying to sell something. So, at this point, you can kinda put it all on a spectrum that ranges from the spirit of the game to product. The more $$$, the less it is actually a TTRPG.

What are your thoughts on the TTRPG industry in 2026? Anyone still playing? Are there any new systems that you like?

Oh, how do I answer this and stay within the character limit for posts on this forum? 😁

The industry? I just don't care. I have enough experience in the hobby that I don't have to care. I don't need the industry to teach me about TTRPGS. I've been homebrewing since WotC bought D&D and have built systems from the ground up when needed. It's not rocket science. If one understands the essential process of tabletop gaming, it's pretty easy to build what you need for the game you want to play. I've built games in as little as 15 minutes (albeit it was just for lighter one shots).

Is anyone still playing? Probably. There's relatively many WotC D&D groups out there, some even with paid GMs (like, people pay someone to run the game for them). It boggles my mind. For the kind of low-brow gaming that D&D now provides, you're better off playing some kind of lizard brain video game. I'm sure some indie games get to the table on the regular. However, the problem is that there's oversaturation in the indie market along with increased provincialism. You could have two people who like indie games, but they each only like their particular indie game and it's not the same. As for me, I haven't been able to get a local gaming group together in forever. I had hit up a local game shop recently and offered to run some old school products that they wanted to move to help generate interest, just to get something going. That went nowhere. I have been considering getting back into play-by-post (which has a high failure rate), but I would use a system I build specifcally to be amenable to play-by-post. There hasn't been any movement on that because I know it's harder to get people to sign up for homebrews and that undermines my motiviation.

New systems? I still have feelers out there, but I don't pursue it aggresively. That being said, I haven't seen anything new in quite some time that evolves the model of actual gaming. The only "evolution" I've seen has been more focused on cutural content production and product design. I kinda feel bad that your feed is getting it with TTRPG content creators because there are so many better uses for gaming time. 🙂
 

OrlonKronsteen

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Great post, @JustKneller. The first time I played D&D (or AD&D, as it was known then) was in the very early 80s (First Ed.). That lasted a little over a year, but it was obsessive, lol. Then I had a brief involvement in a Second Ed. campaign in the mid-90s. After that, nothing. But, philosophically, both groups I was in were the same. We used the source rule books, but made our own changes here or there if they made sense or just for fun. For instance, in the 2E campaign I wanted to run a mage kit with my cleric/mage multi, for flavour, and the DM said, 'sure why not.' We didn't get too bogged down by it all.

My limited experience of 5E is through BG3, which of course is a CRPG. I bought the 5E Player's Handbook so I could understand the new generation of D&D and hopefully play BG3 better (Ha!). I don't know what to make of it, honestly. I'm just not good enough of a game analyst (though it might help to see the DM Guide). I think the Franken-multis that I see in BG3 are ridiculous, but no one is forcing anyone to build those, and I think the loosening of restrictions in that regard is an improvement over 2E. I will say that, based on my CRPG experience, I prefer 5E to the 3E and 4E incarnations, which I didn't like at all, particularly the feats, which felt super cheesy to me (they reminded me of ToB HLAs).
I kinda feel bad that your feed is getting it with TTRPG content creators because there are so many better uses for gaming time. 🙂
Ha! I haven't signed into YT in years, so I can just clear my browsing history and I'll have a fresh slate of other, random crap to weed through. On the other hand, TTRPG content is probably better than YT's default... 😂
 

JustKneller

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But, philosophically, both groups I was in were the same. We used the source rule books, but made our own changes here or there if they made sense or just for fun.

I'd say that is basically old school gaming. I gamed then and had a similar experience. No labels, no culture wars, just a bunch of people hanging out playing a game and acknowledging that different tables may play by different rules.

The only reason I'm not oriented towards keeping on with TSR D&D is that I realize, in practice, even that equation can be simplified. I'm more in the style of Free Kriegsspiel (which may have its own culture war brewing).

My preferred homebrew these days runs far more like a classic game than a new school game. But, I wanted something I could teach new gamers in minutes, is intuitive out of the gate, and I could apply to any setting. It's also easier for me to improvise with it so if I'm fortunate enough to happen to run into some people who want to do a spontaneous game (hasn't happened yet, sadly), I'm already good to go.

I don't know what to make of it, honestly. I'm just not good enough of a game analyst (though it might help to see the DM Guide)

Ironically, even though the system has gained weight, it has lost genuine complexity. In typical WotC D&D, once you've made your character, you're done making meaningful decisions. The game is pretty much on rails from there. The game is designed to appear like it's challenging you and your character is growing for it, but all the "power" you gain is being negated on the DM's side of the equation with equivalent growth. D&D leans on the 65% rule, which is to say that as your level and enemy challenge rating increases, you're bound to succeed 65% of the time, on average. It's basically a reverse casino model. In a casino, games are designed to slowly take your money over time. D&D is now designed around players slowly winning over time. You have enough failures to feel like you've earned your successes, but as one of my favorite video game characters would say, "Truth is, the game was rigged from the start."

That being said, optimizing your character is just about looking for the biggest bonuses and identifying synergies. It's less about role-playing and more about building a deck for Magic: the Gathering. Probably no surprise since the same company produces both games.
 

OrlonKronsteen

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That being said, optimizing your character is just about looking for the biggest bonuses and identifying synergies. It's less about role-playing and more about building a deck for Magic: the Gathering. Probably no surprise since the same company produces both games.
That phenomenon is observable in BG3. I've never seen such a min-max culture before. It's even fostered and encouraged by the devs, who give every companion a 17 in their primary stat. I'm surprised that it's going on in TT, however. Seems like that would kill the RP aspect.

D&D leans on the 65% rule, which is to say that as your level and enemy challenge rating increases, you're bound to succeed 65% of the time, on average. It's basically a reverse casino model. In a casino, games are designed to slowly take your money over time. D&D is now designed around players slowly winning over time. You have enough failures to feel like you've earned your successes, but as one of my favorite video game characters would say, "Truth is, the game was rigged from the start."
Interesting... my TT experiences were essentially the early no-reloads. We died all the time, and successes were few and far between (we were probably too tough, looking back, but the dice decided it for the most part). You might occasionally have a character last a couple months in real time, but eventually your luck would run out. My first experience with AD&D (until then I'd played basic and expert with my friends) was at our junior high school library, with guys I didn't even know. Some guy's character had died in the G Series and he rage-quit the campaign, so there was an empty seat at the table. I joined in at the start of the frost giant module. Man, this is taking me down memory lane.
 

Black Elk

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It definitely appeals to my ADHD&D! :cool: Just kidding, I can't stand subscription models for things like this. I mean I used to have Dungeon magazine, or pony up for things like CDs when I came on board, but that's when we'd get actual things, like a magazine or a CD. Some sort of ephemera in the trade off at least there. Now it's just bites of bytes? Sounds sorta weak. Back during the holidays I introduced my buddy's kids to a very basic sort of Dungeons & Dragons using some Wizkids miniatures and that starter game "Dungeon" which I guess is meant to be the option for younger enthusiasts on the table. Kid's who haven't yet hit the "ages 14 and up" range of the official materials like the Players Handbook, but who are looking for a hook in that doesn't require too much background. I think it's maybe the Wizards answer to something like the boardgame HeroQuest from back when I was little, which also got re-released again a few years ago. Basically you get a simplified Dungeon map and some cards featuring class archetypes like Wizards and Warriors, some monsters, a few magic spells etc. Sorta Candyland, but for the dragons I guess. I got to see the new approach they're trying to adopt there in action, which didn't use the polyhedral dice or character sheets and was focused more giving a simple dungeon crawl that kids could play with each other, sorta like clear the room grab the treasure and be the first to the middle of the map to "win." I found it somewhat refreshing because the rules overhead was so light - gives them a way to dive in and begin without needing a Dungeon Master and only requiring 2 players. Always searching for new ways to make the game more accessible for an underserved demographic, namely parents who don't really know what they're doing, but who still want to encourage their children to get into something that isn't on a screen. But then on the other hand I feel like the dice are essential so that it can be an actual game, as well as just an excuse to play and goof around with miniatures and such. Maybe if they sent minis in the mail to sweeten the deal? I really think they're sort of missing the boat though when they price out those little plastic miniatures. It's like what 20 bones for a trio? That seems insane. Instead they should do it like plastic army men or muscle men from way back when back. Where you could get like a bucket of several dozen molded figures in all sorts, shapes and solid colors for like 10 bucks. Also doing the same with dice, which always feel overpriced for what they are. If they were going to target me as parent to fit the bill on a subscription, I feel like cardboard and plastic and such are what would make it feel different than other similar activities. I feel like they should include a pad of paper with cool designs around the margins, loose leafs for char sheets, 2 nice pencils, and for sure a kneaded eraser. Doesn't all have to arrive all at once, but you know at least mail out a decoder ring right? For a monthly dime, something more than like a preview pdf. You'd think they could do better. Wizard's still asleep at the helm, predictably!

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JustKneller

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Seems like that would kill the RP aspect.
It's fine, see, because my character has a dark and complicated back story that totally rationalizes being a fairy rogue/paladin/psychic/lycanthrope. 🤣

Interesting... my TT experiences were essentially the early no-reloads.
My fault, I wasn't clear. WotC D&D plays by the 65% rule. Original D&D was generally more, you knew the risks when you took the job. Nothing was matched to level. Theoretically, you could be running into a dragon at level 1 (or maybe it was level 3-4 that it hit the random tables) or you could be mowing through goblins at level 12. The world wasn't built around the players. It was up to the players to find their way in the world. It could be more fatal, but that just meant one needed to play smarter.
 

WarChiefZeke

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I legitimately enjoy tabletop, so much so that I will run quick solo campaigns to try new rulesets or adventure books.

So I recently did with Dark Sun, trying to play the rules exactly as they are written, and honestly, it was a fantastic experience. There is a depth to build crafting in Dark Sun that comes from its unique features like wild talents that don't exist elsewhere, and the same goes for weapon choice (the proficiency system allows some weapons to perform special attacks), and the elemental sphere system.

If you haven't given it a real shot, you should.
 

OrlonKronsteen

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My fault, I wasn't clear. WotC D&D plays by the 65% rule. Original D&D was generally more, you knew the risks when you took the job.
Oh, you were clear and I got it. I was just contrasting that 65% rule of WoTC with my own experience with earlier editions, and our pitiless style of DMing. Maybe I had not been clear about that. But yeah, when we played, it was tough to survive. Our characters were dropping like flies. The official modules were tough, and we also wrote our own modules (which was great fun) and they were equally difficult. It was really rare for a character to reach higher levels. But we'd allow a player to roll up a new character (at whatever level the other characters were at) so they could rejoin the campaign in the next module/game.

I had only one character that reached a really high level (14th, if memory serves correctly). I was so chuffed about that. I had dreams about building a stronghold and getting henchmen (which was a thing you could do in 1st Ed.). I can even remember drawing plans for his castle during class, lol. Then, on March Break, I took him into another campaign with a new DM. Unfortunately, that DM was running Tomb of Horrors, and that was that. 😂
 
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