Alignment

[OrlonKronsteen]

So, hypothetically speaking, what was it that you imagined about this infusion when you thought (wrongly) that it was a hallucinogenic beverage? Does that question even make sense to you?

I suppose it was the exotic looking presentation (particularly, the straw) that made me wonder if it was an hallucinogenic plant of some kind. As to what I imagined about it, I thought it might be like peyote, mushrooms, or toad venom. I did imagine it was from South America, so I was partially 'right.' What can I say?

Is caffeine, the molecule, technically considered a drug, yes or no? Some of the Straight-Edge people say yes, and some other Straight-Edge people say no. I literally don't know who I should believe of the two groups. That's one of my personal problems, believe it or not.

Caffeine is a drug for sure. I don't identify as a straight-edger, and don't know much about it, so I can't comment on semantics there - but personally I'd still consider myself sober if it was my only vice.

 

[m7600]

I suppose it was the exotic looking presentation (particularly, the straw) that made me wonder if it was an hallucinogenic plant of some kind.

You know what I'd call that? North-American-ism. You're on the same boat as Canada and Mexico on that one, from where I'm standing. Please don't take offense at that, I mean it like I mean it, you could say. Edit: I mean it as a South American.

As to what I imagined about it, I thought it might be like peyote, mushrooms, or toad venom.

Dude. It's an infusion. It's in the same group as coffee and tea. Like, go look at the FDA website if you don't believe me. It's super North-American of you to be like that. Again, you're in the same boat as Canadians and Mexicans when you imagine such crazy, inaccurate, false things.

I don't identify as a straight-edger, and don't know much about it, so I can't comment on semantics there - but personally I'd still consider myself sober if it was my only vice.

See, that's where they (the Straight-Edgers) see it differently. Some of them will agree with you: you are technically sober, since you have not consumed alcohol. But some others from the same group (the Straight Edge group) will say that you're not technically sober, since you're ingesting caffeine every time you take a sip of coffee. So which group is right, in your opinion? I'm not asking you to identify with them, or to take sides, but yeah, take a "hypothetical side", as it were. Like, if I was making a video game about this, which group would be "right" in your opinion?

 

[m7600]

Ok, you know what? I'm just gonna ask it, @JustKneller help me out on this one if you can, Christmas spirit and all that. Here's the question, answer it honestly:

Is Christmas compatible with Straight-Edge, yes or no? I'll tell you what I think: No, it's not compatible. Christmas is not Straight-Edge. If you make a toast with alcohol, then you're breaking edge, and therefore you're no longer Straight-Edge.

Yes or no?

 

[m7600]

I'll present my argument in a more structured way, as a list of premises from which a conclusion can be logically deduced:

1) If you make a toast with alcohol, then you're breaking edge.
2) If you break edge, then you're no longer Straight-Edge.
3) Therefore, if you make a toast with alcohol, you're no longer Straight-Edge.

I'm not saying that you can't celebrate Christmas without alcohol. That's another discussion. I'm asking if most people, who do indeed toast with alcohol, are morally right in what they're doing, in the sense of being morally better than Straight-Edgers?

Edit: Actually, you know what? I'll say something even more barbaric, from an intellectual standpoint:

All recreational drugs (including coffee) are incompatible with Straight-Edge. Like, you can take aspirins, but you can't drink coffee. And if you take aspirins, it has to be for medical purposes only, not for recreational purposes. That sorta deal. What is your opinion on the morality of this point of view?

 

[m7600]

What is your opinion on the morality of this point of view?

Fine, I'll answer my own question, then. I could be wrong, of course (and I suspect that I am, but that's a different discussion). What is my opinion on the morality of that (the Straight-Edge) point of view?

Hmmm... well, I always think about this. Like, if you drink a beer only once in a year, like you drank a can of Budweiser in February or whatever. But the rest of the year you're sober. Have you broken edge? Some people say yes, some people say no.

I'm on the fence on this one. I can't decide. Both options seem morally equal to me, even though they're mutually opposite. So, using the D&D Alignment chart, I would say that if your character in a (potential) video game is a Straight-Edger, then that character has to be True Neutral. Think of it like they're Druids in 2nd Edition D&D. Morally, Straight-Edgers are like Druids, that's my answer.

Edit: This is not to say that the D&D Alignment chart means anything IRL. But it does have a few things that make it interesting from a philosophical POV. For example, pop culture distinguishes "Good VS Evil", but it doesn't distinguish, like Immanual Kant does, between three types of moral actions: Good, Neutral, and Evil. What I'm saying is, D&D has more in common with Immanuel Kant's ethical theory of the categorical imperative, than it does with brain-dead pop culture theories of morality.

 

[JustKneller]

Is Christmas compatible with Straight-Edge, yes or no?

That's an easy one. Yes. There are tons of Mormons who do it every year.

 

[m7600]

That's an easy one. Yes. There are tons of Mormons who do it every year.

Man, you have sharp wits. That didn't even occur to me.

Ok, so let me ask you this: if one is a straight-edger, does one have the ethical and moral obligation to convert to Mormonism, yes or no?

 

[JustKneller]

Absolutely not. I wear pants. Nazis wear pants. I don't have to be a Nazi just because I wear pants.

 

[m7600]

Fun fact: did you know that there's a fringe sociological hypothesis (it's been around for a while, now) that says that there is a correlation between the following two variables:

1) The number of comments a Thread in a forum has, and:
2) The exact comment which mentions Nazis in that Thread for the first time.

As to what that correlation means, I'm at a loss, but I imagine that it means something more or less like: "Yeah, this Thread went downhill from there."

 

[m7600]

Of course, the irony underlying that layer of the discussion, is the following one: if you're really "hardline" about it, you can't be a straight-edger that drinks coffee for recreational purposes, but you could be a straight-edger that drinks coffee for medical purposes.

And, if that's the case, then you have to argue that your routinely, morning coffee, is your daily medicine. But then, a lot of people would call you an addict, wouldn't they?

 

[m7600]

Now, excuse me while I sip on my "toad venom", as @OrlonKronsteen called it.

 

[m7600]

I find the following concept quite awe-inspiring from a philosophical POV. All of those are Afterlife Planes:

 

[JustKneller]

Fun fact: did you know that there's a fringe sociological hypothesis (it's been around for a while, now) that says that there is a correlation between the following two variables:

1) The number of comments a Thread in a forum has, and:
2) The exact comment which mentions Nazis in that Thread for the first time.

As to what that correlation means, I'm at a loss, but I imagine that it means something more or less like: "Yeah, this Thread went downhill from there."

Crap, I am aware of that. Sorry, I've just ruined your thread. The crappy thing is that I could have used a million other things for an analogy. I didn't even need the Nazis. Then again nobody ever needs Nazis.

 

[m7600]

Crap, I am aware of that. Sorry, I've just ruined your thread. The crappy thing is that I could have used a million other things for an analogy. I didn't even need the Nazis. Then again nobody ever needs Nazis.

Dude. Listen to me, your fellow American. You literally compared Mormons to the Nazis. Like, that's some North-American shit that I, as a South American, do not want to touch, not even with a 10 foot pole.

 

[m7600]

Down the rabbit hole...
...is Hatebreed compatible with Christmas? I'm saying no, and I'm choosing Hatebreed:



Edit: is Hatebreed compatible with Straight Edge? Jamey Jasta (lead singer of Hatebreed) listens to Earth Crisis, so there's that.

...and down the rabbit hole we go...

 

[m7600]

... are Veganism and Straight Edge compatible? Am I morally obligated to be a Vegan? Do I have to be Hardline Straight Edge? Can I be Vegan Straight Edge instead? If I think that Earth Crisis is better than Youth of Today, does that make me less spiritual? Do I even care? Is Straight Edge in the Bible? And similar dumb questions...

@JustKneller help me out here, answer some or all or none of the preceding questions.

 

[m7600]

@Black Elk is Straight Edge in the Bible, yes or no?

 

[m7600]

Here's a good online Alignment test:

Alignment Test » Dungeons & Dragons - D&D 5e

www.aidedd.org

I got Chaotic Good this time, as you can see in the image above.

 

[JustKneller]

I got Lawful Neutral, which is usually where I land with these tests. I'm not surprised.

 

[m7600]

I got Lawful Neutral, which is usually where I land with these tests. I'm not surprised.

Yeah, I don't care. You're like @OrlonKronsteen , Lawful Neutral. I'm True Neutral, the name of my Alignment says it all, dude, it's the only alignment that has "True" in the name.

Besides, I've fallen deep down this rabbit hole right now and I can't get out. Yeah, I'll just shoot from the hip: No, Straight-Edge is not in the Bible. It's not biblical. But it's way cooler than the Bible. I mean, it just is. There's no argument there. But if you accept that, now you have to think what to do with Hatebreed, with Veganism, with Hardline, with PETA, with Earth Crisis, I mean it's a lot, and I don't have a very good grasp of it. It's like this larger than life thing, but it's like, do you actually want to be a straight edger? Do I want to be a straight edger? Do I want to break edge? When do you break edge, exactly? Where do you draw the line? If you drink a can of beer, have you broken edge? What if it's instead a cup of wine?

Etc., down the rabbit whole we go...