Black Elk
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Saw this earlier today
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
A BG2 Remake?
- Thread starter Black Elk
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Black Elk
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So my guess is that they'd want to somehow bring the campaign in line with the current 2024 5.5E but it's just so different from AD&D 2E. Just the other day I was playing my Imoen honour run in BG3 as the dark urge and was immediately confronted with some issues there. I went for the Shadows of Amn style visualization. I ended up playing her as a Wizard initially (Illusion school), because of BG2, which made that feel somehow more her archetype now. Then I tried Arcane trickster but that felt insufficiently powerful. The multiclass Thief/Mage was also sorta tough to realize under the new framework. Amusingly via itemization I was able to achieve her BG2 stat block since the circlet of intellect raises INT to 17 and the Gloves of Dex gave her 18 there, I was able to juice her CON and CHA to 16 with the point left over for a 9 in STR hehe. For that one I used a Withers Zombie. She looked pretty cool with the Mantle. In the end I went with a Rogue 1/Illusionist 11 to try and keep pace with the power curve under the level cap in BG3, but anyhow it was sort of all over the place.
Still I'd be lying if I didn't say I got a little excited at the prospect of seeing her come back for another round lol
Still I'd be lying if I didn't say I got a little excited at the prospect of seeing her come back for another round lol
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Hey, we have a bit of discussion about this here: https://tavernrpg.com/threads/industry-news-upcoming-games.101/page-25
IMHO, too early to tell. What VO actors will they use? What type of gameplay will the game have (RtwP)? What DnD Edition will it use? How will they handle the camera? Will it be moddable? How will they handle the balance (classes, multiclasses, etc etc) and the combat? Who is the developer?
IMHO, too early to tell. What VO actors will they use? What type of gameplay will the game have (RtwP)? What DnD Edition will it use? How will they handle the camera? Will it be moddable? How will they handle the balance (classes, multiclasses, etc etc) and the combat? Who is the developer?
OrlonKronsteen
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Me: "I wish they'd move on from BG already. Can't they create ANYTHING new?"
Also me: "Just take my money already, (insert developer's name here)."
I do wish they'd do something new - preferably in a different setting than the FR - but I'm still interested in seeing what they come up with. If they pull it off, we'll have an aesthetically pleasing and modern D&D game. If they fuck it up, it's only a game. There will have been greater tragedies in history.
O_Bruce
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One of my biggest concerns regarding that remake. That it would be catered to Larian tourists instead of actual fans of the first two games.
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Oh, I am a tourist then. I hate rtwp. Original IE games are the only ones where it was managable to me.
Even worse, I'm a Dadgamer
O_Bruce
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Nah, you're not, not according to my definition at the very least. You were not introduced to Baldur's Gate via third installment and I assume you don't think it's a good idea to demand changes to older games not made for you.
Because that's what tourist would do. Join a thing, know nothing about said thing, demand the thing to change for them.
My above post was due it not being even 24 hours since the rumors, and already Larian fans are demanding the changes for them. That or dismissing the remakes altogether because "it's not Larian".
Because that's what tourist would do. Join a thing, know nothing about said thing, demand the thing to change for them.
My above post was due it not being even 24 hours since the rumors, and already Larian fans are demanding the changes for them. That or dismissing the remakes altogether because "it's not Larian".
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I think at the end of the day, it's the rights holder who will decide on stuff like 5.5E vs 2E, turn-based vs RtwP, etc, for a remake like this, not the developer. And they might back up any claim by bringing up BG3 sales and reviews (vs any possible "hardcore"/"niche"/"ancient dinosaurs" public) from a corporate standpoint, ignoring the main point that made BG3 a success - Larian and their developer experience. However, I think just using that comparison (BG3 sold well, so we need to use TB and 5.5E here as well) might not be correct for a remake of a cult game, the success of which relied on so, so many things only valid for BG2 itself, be it VO, the myriad of spells and class combinations, the old sprites, etc etc. So we'll see how this one goes.
Black Elk
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Right though! Same and same
Haha sorry should have checked the other thread first, when I got back home the other day saw that headline and it hit like a brick. I figured well this sounds like a case for the Tavern! Can merge it up if that makes sense. If we get any more details I'm sure we'll all have many thoughts!
I just keep thinking like how would this work, if it could even work, and then what would I want out of such a thing? If it's a reboot it would need to be the Reboots of Speed to still catch fire from the last installment, if that's where they're headed. I think for a remake maybe if they remastered the music and kept the same sounds but updated it so the camera could spin around? I imagine it would have to be a truncated form of BG1 with reimagined areas but the same flavor in terms of encounters if trying to squeeze both things into one game. Just seems like a can of wyrms though.
That said I think the idea of trying to figure out what the characters from BG1 and BG2 would look like like now is interesting. Like I tried to pull off a Kivan and an Aerie in BG3 and that was all I could come up with cause the hireling system there is all locked into the bizarro zombie options with fixed background/races there to pointlessly gatekeep my choices. There weren't enough slots to do a whole crew. Not enough humans there or enough spaces to get the job done in BG3 for a full party of six. I was going to just make Edwin Returns out of Gale but other than him there was no one in the standard roster that fit the bills really. I could make a Monty but not a Xzar, and so it all seemed futile. Then I started messing around in Solasta II with the same idea, but again it's like not everyone could be created to my satisfaction under the new schemes. Trying to translate the old characters into the new thing esp for the muticlass or characters that went dual like Imoen left much to be desired. On the other hands, because it was D&D and we got these legacy Heroes like Jaheira, there's probably some sort of rubric they might follow. I remember scratching my head at a few of the redrafts in the EEs regarding weapons proficiencies and fighting styles and such, but a redo now would be a much taller order. Somehow it seems unlikely that they would dive back into 2nd or 3rd edition, and so some Qs would need to get an answer.
I think for any of the Multiclass characters from the older games, they'd need to choose which Class is dominant and make that the primary at lvl 1. So for Imoen specifically I think Wizard just makes more sense than Rogue now. Basically with a feat or something similar to give her the Thief flavor.
Urchin Background would give her the necessary sleight of hands and stealth so at least those proficiencies can scale with Char lvl. As a human she can choose one skill for that, so that's another option, or maybe choosing perception or whatever to find the traps. She'd lose out on the Rogue expertise, but it sorta fits with her classing out after she got her points in find traps and pick locks, then using invisibility for whatever stealth stuff from her mage repertoire. Depends when they bring her into it I guess, but say they start at lvl 8 for a BG2, a lvl 3 rogue, lvl 5 wizard just gets clowned on by a lvl 8 wizard with an extra feat to make her seem roguish. A feat in Skilled or extra Weapons maybe but anyway, similar to Jaheira becoming a pureclass Druid now, I think most characters would need to be sorta redrafted into a single class archetype. I'd prefer it though, if doing some redo, that they start at the start, ie Lvl 1, that way we can choose their subclasses and such.
As for the gameplay, I enjoyed the turn based approach of BG3, but it feels pretty slow compared to the high octaine runs in BG1/2. I think mainly because the campaign went with a party of 4 rather than 6, and the encounters are all puzzly. There just weren't enough monsters or dungeons to give it the full BG flavor. I also found the itemization to be a mixed bag, like they had a lot of colorful items with unique properties, but when every merchant sells half a dozen enchanted items it makes everything feel somehow less special. Getting amped up for just a regular old +1 to whatever, now everything has to have some wild conditional ability. I'd rather something that fit the pace of BG1 over BG2, but I guess BG3 is more like BG1 than BG2 in terms of the story/terrain, so maybe they just want to take it somewhere else in Faerun. I think they should have mentioned Imoen more prominantly though, I mean she was there for the long haul in 1 and 2 but forgotten in 3. I think she maybe gets one throw away line from Minsc, and an oblique reference in a random book, but otherwise it's like she never existed. I'd like to see Viconia again, obviously I was not satisfied, she should have been a recruitable companion to balance against Jaheira, but anyhow, different games.
Haha sorry should have checked the other thread first, when I got back home the other day saw that headline and it hit like a brick. I figured well this sounds like a case for the Tavern! Can merge it up if that makes sense. If we get any more details I'm sure we'll all have many thoughts!
I just keep thinking like how would this work, if it could even work, and then what would I want out of such a thing? If it's a reboot it would need to be the Reboots of Speed to still catch fire from the last installment, if that's where they're headed. I think for a remake maybe if they remastered the music and kept the same sounds but updated it so the camera could spin around? I imagine it would have to be a truncated form of BG1 with reimagined areas but the same flavor in terms of encounters if trying to squeeze both things into one game. Just seems like a can of wyrms though.
That said I think the idea of trying to figure out what the characters from BG1 and BG2 would look like like now is interesting. Like I tried to pull off a Kivan and an Aerie in BG3 and that was all I could come up with cause the hireling system there is all locked into the bizarro zombie options with fixed background/races there to pointlessly gatekeep my choices. There weren't enough slots to do a whole crew. Not enough humans there or enough spaces to get the job done in BG3 for a full party of six. I was going to just make Edwin Returns out of Gale but other than him there was no one in the standard roster that fit the bills really. I could make a Monty but not a Xzar, and so it all seemed futile. Then I started messing around in Solasta II with the same idea, but again it's like not everyone could be created to my satisfaction under the new schemes. Trying to translate the old characters into the new thing esp for the muticlass or characters that went dual like Imoen left much to be desired. On the other hands, because it was D&D and we got these legacy Heroes like Jaheira, there's probably some sort of rubric they might follow. I remember scratching my head at a few of the redrafts in the EEs regarding weapons proficiencies and fighting styles and such, but a redo now would be a much taller order. Somehow it seems unlikely that they would dive back into 2nd or 3rd edition, and so some Qs would need to get an answer.
I think for any of the Multiclass characters from the older games, they'd need to choose which Class is dominant and make that the primary at lvl 1. So for Imoen specifically I think Wizard just makes more sense than Rogue now. Basically with a feat or something similar to give her the Thief flavor.
Urchin Background would give her the necessary sleight of hands and stealth so at least those proficiencies can scale with Char lvl. As a human she can choose one skill for that, so that's another option, or maybe choosing perception or whatever to find the traps. She'd lose out on the Rogue expertise, but it sorta fits with her classing out after she got her points in find traps and pick locks, then using invisibility for whatever stealth stuff from her mage repertoire. Depends when they bring her into it I guess, but say they start at lvl 8 for a BG2, a lvl 3 rogue, lvl 5 wizard just gets clowned on by a lvl 8 wizard with an extra feat to make her seem roguish. A feat in Skilled or extra Weapons maybe but anyway, similar to Jaheira becoming a pureclass Druid now, I think most characters would need to be sorta redrafted into a single class archetype. I'd prefer it though, if doing some redo, that they start at the start, ie Lvl 1, that way we can choose their subclasses and such.
As for the gameplay, I enjoyed the turn based approach of BG3, but it feels pretty slow compared to the high octaine runs in BG1/2. I think mainly because the campaign went with a party of 4 rather than 6, and the encounters are all puzzly. There just weren't enough monsters or dungeons to give it the full BG flavor. I also found the itemization to be a mixed bag, like they had a lot of colorful items with unique properties, but when every merchant sells half a dozen enchanted items it makes everything feel somehow less special. Getting amped up for just a regular old +1 to whatever, now everything has to have some wild conditional ability. I'd rather something that fit the pace of BG1 over BG2, but I guess BG3 is more like BG1 than BG2 in terms of the story/terrain, so maybe they just want to take it somewhere else in Faerun. I think they should have mentioned Imoen more prominantly though, I mean she was there for the long haul in 1 and 2 but forgotten in 3. I think she maybe gets one throw away line from Minsc, and an oblique reference in a random book, but otherwise it's like she never existed. I'd like to see Viconia again, obviously I was not satisfied, she should have been a recruitable companion to balance against Jaheira, but anyhow, different games.
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OrlonKronsteen
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I think Larian did a terrible job with the original characters (especially Viconia). They should never have been there in the first place, imo. This is one thing the remake devs will have to be VERY careful about, not just the game mechanics.