Icewind Dale with Basically Experts

[JustKneller]

@O_Bruce's recent thread has me inspired to give IWD another go. But, I'm not going to steal your thunder, O_Bruce. I am playing classic, not enhanced, and I have a very different concept in mind.

IWD is my favorite IE game, especially with regards to its fidelity to the source system. Unlike other IE games (which aren't chopped liver by any means), this one feels the most like I'm playing classic AD&D. I have been fortunate enough to find a new tabletop group recently and it has been going well. We are doing the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh version of Basic/Expert (B/X) D&D (which was eventually retrocloned as Old School Essentials) and are having a great time. My character is a low intelligence halfling who is making some dumb moves that have been miraculously working out quite well. Clearly, I bought the right set of dice for this game.

I thought I would see how the Basic/Expert model fares in Icewind Dale. I'm sure it will be fine. The game is a cakewalk with an optimized party and a fun adventure with a challenge party.

In any event, the rules are as follows.

Character attributes are rolled 3d6 down the line. Characters can be deemed hopeless (and scrapped) if all attributes are below average or if two or more attributes are really low (6 or below).

Attribute points can be moved around on a 2 for 1 basis, but with the following limitations. Strength may be lowered by magic-users to raise intelligence, by clerics to raise Wisdom, and by thieves to raise Dexterity. Intelligence may be lowered by fighters, dwarves, halflings, clerics, and thieves to raise the prime requisite of their class. Wisdom may be lowered by everyone but clerics to raise the prime requisite for their class. Dexterity can't be lowered, but it can be raised if it is a prime requisite. Constitution or Charisma may not be raised or lowered. No score can be lowered below 9 with adjustments.

There are seven classes in B/X D&D. The fighter, cleric, magic-user, thief, dwarf, elf, and halfling. Yeah, being a different race is its own class in B/X. There's a rationale for it that I won't bother to get into, but this basically translates into AD&D as a dwarf fighter, halfling fighter, and elf fighter/mage. It probably goes without saying, but the four core classes are human only.

Since the IWD roller boost scores up to the needed minimums, I'll be rolling my characters the old fashioned way, using the dice that have served me well in my current tabletop game. 3d6 down the line gets me:

​

​	A​	B​	C​	D​	E​	F​
Str​	10​	13​	10​	7​	15​	8​
Dex​	9​	9​	7​	14​	13​	14​
Con​	6​	7​	15​	9​	11​	14​
Int​	13​	8​	13​	10​	11​	13​
Wis​	14​	14​	7​	15​	12​	12​
Cha​	15​	13​	14​	13​	9​	9​
Total​	67​	64​	66​	68​	71​	70​

Yikes! I guess the dice only work with actual tabletop, not video games. Actually, I can't complain. They are all above average (63-point) characters. I only had to scrap one that rolled two scores below six. A lot of decent scores were wasted on Charisma, though.

A, B, and C are not set up to be good front-liners with their poor to middling physical attributes. But D and F have pretty bad Str for the front line, too. For F, I can pull points from Int and Wis to bump Str to average to make a serviceable dwarf or halfling (with +3 shorty saves). E would make another good fighter, especially if I pull from Int and Wis to get Str to 17. The decent Con makes another good halfling option, though the Con is just a little too low to be a dwarf. I need a Dex of 12 to make a respectable thief, but the thief is also my least important character (at least, for attribute scores). From A-D, I want to pull a Cleric and an Elf. A single class mage out-levels the spell availability so the multi would be more practical. I think A is my Elf, which I would make a back-line archer. The Dex isn't great, but there's also no penalties there. B or D are my clerics, possibly both. B can actually make a good caster cleric. I can drop Str for Wis and the Dex/Con are just high enough to avoid penalties. That leaves C and D. A thief and a wild card. I can make C my thief if I drop Int to get my Dex to 9. D is a thief right out of the gates, and I can drop Wis for even better Dex. I want to get a third front-liner out of this for balance, though, and preferably another cleric. However, both have unimpressive Dex and neither can use any kind of plate with their Str scores. But, B can get to plate mail with Str 13, so actually I'll make D my caster cleric in the back line and B can be a passable front-ish line cleric off tank. I guess that makes C my thief.

So, now we have:

​

​	Elf​	Clr​	Thf​	Clr​	Hlf​	Dwf​
Str​	10​	13​	10​	7​	17​	11​
Dex​	9​	9​	9​	14​	13​	14​
Con​	6​	7​	15​	9​	11​	14​
Int​	15​	8​	9​	10​	9​	9​
Wis​	10​	14​	7​	15​	10​	10​
Cha​	15​	13​	14​	13​	9​	9​
Total​	67​	64​	66​	68​	71​	70​
Extra​	17​	16​	18​	10​	13​	13​

The Ext row is how many extra points I threw away when actually creating each character. Not gonna lie. The 16, 17, and 18 really hurt.

To be continued...

 

[JustKneller]

We do need a little backstory here, more so than I would probably do for a tabletop game. We have six commoners suddenly turned adventurers in a small village with just the clothes on their back, some staves, but also a small fortune of gold between them. That needs some explaining.

Spoiler: A new hope

Six commoners from the Ten Towns acquainted somewhat recently by imprisonment and enslavement courtesy of the Black Raven Tribe. They now huddled around a table by the fireplace in the Winter's Cradle Tavern. Their current freedom comes from the grace of the Tribe of the Bear, who were hunting the Black Ravens for their own revenge. These barbarian saviors slew our soon-to-be heroes' captors and then pointed them to Easthaven with the Black Raven's spoils of banditry to help them rebuild their lives. Nine hundred gold, or one hundred and fifty gold apiece, is a tidy sum for any commoner. It would be tempting to put the past in the past and move forward to a new life with a small fortune. However, the Black Ravens left all six of them feeling a certain way. Can they return to the plebeian path knowing that they could be plucked from it again in the future? Nay. They have learned the hard way that this is a world that can roll on you, so one needs to be ready to roll back. By the grace of the Bear, our heroes' story begins and it is By the Grace of the Bear that they have decided to call their humble troupe.

Spoiler: Aethelis

Aethelis (CG Elf Fighter/Mage, Str 10, Dex 9, Con 6, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 15, Large Swords++, Bows++) was previously working as the Ten Towns' equivalent of a traveling salesman with a merchant company based in Bryn Shander. He spent little time in the town, though, as he was always on the move. While he trained with swords and bows should he ever find himself in trouble, he never had any until the attack from the Black Ravens. The experience changed him and left him feeling he was squandering his potential working as a merchant's shill. He simply couldn't go back to that. His starting spells are Friends and Charm Person, the most useful spells for a commoner merchant. Aethelis will ultimately only have access to level 7 spells. If I get really lucky, I might end up with an item to boost Int enough to get access to level 8 spells. However, the devs didn't put much effort into spells in classic after level 6 so no worries either way.

Spoiler: Belisent

Belisent (LG Human Cleric, Str 13, Dex 9, Con 7, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 13, Maces+, Slings+) is a Helmite priestess assigned to guard her faith's humble shrine in Bryn Shander. She spent most of her days simply standing at the entrance with a polished and unused mace in hand. Though the Ten Towns were a rugged place in general, the shrine never saw any problems and the people generally appreciated having the extra divine support. After more days than she could remember, she finally caught an assignment to escort a wealthy merchant and his entourage to Mirabar. However, the travelers were ambushed along the Blackford Road as they crossed the Black Raven River. She was not the only one taken by the Black Ravens, though (perhaps through her faith alone) she was the only one that survived long enough to be freed by the Tribe of the Bear. She could return to Bryn Shander, but for what? To go back to standing around and doing nothing except dwell on her failure? No. She would redeem herself, or die trying.

Spoiler: Cleo

Cleo (CG Human Thief, Str 10, Dex 9, Con 15, Int 9, Wis 7, Cha 14, Clubs+, Bows+) came from a family of hunters in Hundelstone. However, the only thing Cleo had successfully hunted (well, more like trapped) were rock hares. She was generally considered to be one of the less competent hunters of their community and had often been the butt of many a jest (albeit good-natured). One day, while hunting alone, it was she who fell into a trap by the Black Ravens. Though she was now free, she couldn't return to Hundelstone to be the laughing stock yet again. She may not be the best at hunting game, but should she return with tales of greater exploits, she would show them all. Funny enough, a Human Thief with 9 Dex (basically the worst possible thief) starts with -10% Steath, -5% Find Traps, and 0% Pick Pockets and Open Locks. Ouch. I put her 30 starting points into Traps since that made the most sense for someone who hunt/trapped rabbits (which is more of a trapping/flushing them out of the brush thing than a stealth activity).

Spoiler: Daelin

Daelin (NG Human Cleric, Str 7, Dex 14, Con 9, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 13, Clubs+, Slings+) was a cleric of Oghma residing in Candlekeep and had a passion for Reghed oral histories. Though the library was vast, tomes on oral histories were as sparse as one might imagine. Daelin took it upon himself to travel to the Ten Towns to make connections with the Reghed tribes in hopes of capturing their histories to text. Such a collection would be a fantastic addition to the great library as well as bring glory to Oghma. Unfortunately, the Black Ravens were the tribe he found first. Capture did not dissuade Daelin from his mission. Now free in Easthaven, the expedition to Kuldahar would get him closer to Reghed territory and back on track.

Spoiler: Eldon

Eldon (NG Halfling Fighter, Str 17, Dex 13, Con 11, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 9, Flails++, Darts++) hails from Targos, or more accurately, hailed from Targos. During the day, he worked a farm on the outskirts, tending to and threshing winter rye. At night, he caroused through the taverns and had a talent for darts. Prior to his departure, he engaged in a friendly dart game for a friendly wager with what turned out to be a not so friendly merchant. Despite cheating, the merchant lost to Eldon and lost a tidy sum. Finding a loss to such a low person to be undignified, he sent his muscle to fleece the halfling upon his return home. Eldon saw the thugs outside his home before they saw him. The winnings in his purse were worth about as much as the possessions in his home. He took this as a good sign to start a new chapter in life and left Targos for Good Mead. They had better drink there anyway. He didn't get far before he ran into some Black Ravens, though. In Easthaven, the 150 gold that was his cut would be more than enough to live comfortably in Good Mead, at least for a while. However, maybe this adventure was truly the new chapter meant for him. There was only one way to find out.

Spoiler: Fendak

Fendak (LN Dwarf Fighter, Str 11, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 9, Hammers++, Axes++) is just Fendak, a dwarf from the Dwarven Valley with no holdings, no wealth, no status, no clan and no means to get any of these things. He was a common laborer, an extra hammer at the forge or an extra axe in the mountain forest, when either was needed. Fendak was not disliked, but commanded no respect either. Thulrek Battlehammer was one of the few that had disdain for Fendak. He was on the periphery of the Battlehammer clan in terms of status or importance. This only fueled his poor temperament, especially towards Fendak. One day, Fendak was working the forge while Thulrek was hurling insults. Distracted by the vitriol, Fendak's hammer slipped and launched a shard of molten iron into Thulrek's chest. Everyone knew the death was an accident, but even a terrible Battlehammer is a Battlehammer. Having nothing to offer as restitution, Fendak was exiled. He figured he could find work as a laborer in Bryn Shander, but never made it to his destination before being taken by the Black Ravens. Now, in Easthaven, the five other ex-captives around the table are probably the closest thing he has ever had to a clan. He decided to throw in with them. It was not like he had anything better to do, anyway.

Fendak (LN Dwarf Fighter, Str 11, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 9, Hammers++, Daggers++) was just Fendak. In the Dwarven Valley, Fendak was nobody, a clanless laborer working a forge he would never own. Because the clans did not waste martial training on outcasts, he had to teach himself to fight using a hammer and dagger in case of raids from the Underdark. There was no way he was going to let a mindflayer drag him off for god knows what. Fendak's lack of status made him a prime target for Thulrek Battlehammer's cruel outbursts. Thulrek was on the periphery of the renowned Battlehammer clan and barely mattered, which likely only fueled his poor temper. Fendak could never argue back. He just took the abuse. But one day, distracted by Thulrek’s relentless insults, Fendak's hammer slipped, throwing a shard of molten iron straight into the bully's chest. Unfortunately, even a worthless Battlehammer is a Battlehammer. Having nothing to offer the clan as restitution, Fendak was exiled. He figured he could find work as a laborer in Bryn Shander, but never made it to his destination before being taken by the Black Ravens. Now free, in Easthaven, the five other ex-captives around the table are probably the closest thing he has ever had to a clan. He decided to throw in with them. It was not like he had anything better to do, anyway.

 

[BelgarathMTH]

It should be interesting to read how this goes.

Question: Are you going to use core spell-scribing rules? With your fighter-mage having 15 Intelligence, and the rarity of scrolls in IWD, there's a good chance to fail scribing attempts, which could make for a really weak or even near-useless spellbook with some empty spell slots at higher levels.

I can't remember what the spell-scribing rules were in basic D&D. I remember that in 1st edition AD&D there was still a rule where you actually needed to know a spell called "Write Magic" and memorize it with a spell slot before you could attempt to scribe a scroll into your spell book. My high school tabletop group never used the rule, and we used a house-ruled much more permissive arcane spell system, although I think it was because it was a game run by teenagers who didn't understand the mage spell system rules from the handbooks, and I was the only one in the group inclined to study all that and play a mage anyway.

Also, if this run works out, you'll be proving that power-gaming is completely unnecessary to beat an Infinity Engine game, and that you can run a role-play party with few stat bonuses and a lot of stat penalties and still succeed.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: Shopping

By the Grace of the Bear, they needed outfitting. Despite Aethelis putting his most charming foot forward, the shopkeeper was quite ornery. Still, the elf was able to negotiate the prices down for the gear that they needed.

I think this is my first time playing a party with generally such low (or average) strength. I only have one character with higher than average strength (two if we are counting Belisent's 13). Just carrying basic outfitting leaves most of the team with little capacity for anything else.

Spoiler: Attitude problems

Cleo did not especially care for the shopkeeper's attitude. In her book, the time for people looking down on her has officially passed. She skulked away to rifle through his private shelves and found a few things that the party could use. For now, she held onto them and would find an appropriate time to share. She figured the Helmite, and maybe some of the others, might take issue with how she acquired these trinkets.

There are quite a few things worth stealing in this game, but for roleplay reasons (I play generally good parties), it is quite rare that I actually indulge. This is one case were I always can find a way to make an exception.

Spoiler: Buying a round

Hrothgar, the de facto leader of Easthaven, wanted to speak with the troupe. They decided to first get their bearings first by meeting the people of the village. Eldon had picked up a bottle of wine for himself at the shop and shared it with one of the local fishermen. It was the least he could do to thank Jed for putting that pompous Calishite in his place.

I normally convince Jed to stop drinking, but this time around, nobody had the stats for it. No matter. The end result is basically the same (1200 xp).

Spoiler: The first dungeon

Hrothgar sent Grace of Bears (they decided to shorten the name for ease) to track down a missing caravan. After carving through a small band of goblins and a few wolves, they found themselves at what would be their first dungeon. Their adversary? Orcs. None of them had ever seen an orc before, and now they would be squaring off against a band of them.

I was hoping for a better drop from the elite goblin on the way out of town. I got splint mail, which I didn't need at that point. The potion of healing or high quality morning star it could drop would have been better. Still, one of the many things I appreciate about this game over Baldur's Gate are the random drops. Just like in tabletop, you don't know what you're going to get.

Spoiler: Spoiling for a fight

They dispatched smaller groups of orcs with ease as they explored the cave. Such were the advantages of superior numbers. They had a much harder fight in a large chamber. The sides were more even and the orcs had more archers as well as a shaman. Eldon, with the help of his darts, insured the shaman could not hurl a single curse and then took on the charging Orcs. Belisent and Fendak worked the periphery focusing on the archers. The rest of the party backed up Eldon, as he was badly outnumbered. He took a few hits, but Cleo passed him the potion of healing she lifted from Pomab. In the chaos, nobody thought to ask her where it came from and that was fine by her. The Grace of Bears took a few lumps, but ultimately were victorious.

Based on what I've read of others playing IE games, a fighter with darts is a rare occurrence but extremely underrated. They are one handed, 3 apr, and with a fighter's THAC0/specialization, they are a total mage killer.

Spoiler: Boss battle

They eventually reached the den of the orcs' leader. Much to their surprise, it was not another orc, but an ogre that ran this band of monsters. Here, the Bears were outnumbered and outmatched. This would be a costly battle. The priests were able to put off the ogre with spells of Command, but this only bought them a little time. Eldon and Fendak held the line and focused on the rushing orcs. The rest of the team used bows and slings to take down the archers. By the time the ogre could enter the fray, the numbers were in their favor. Everyone focused on the ogre and was able to rough him up a bit before the ogre's morning star felled Fendak. This was not good. Eldon was already quite injured and, even with Belisent helping hold the line with her mace, it was likely another of their party would fall in this fight.

Poor Fendak. I figured either he or Eldon would eat dirt in this cave, though. At least he made it to the end and isn't going to lose a lot of xp.

Spoiler: Tactical withdrawal

The remaining Bears fell back to the larger chamber and the ogre gave chase. Still, they gained some much needed breathing room with their retreat. Belisent bestowed Helm's blessing on the party and they all prepared to make their last stand. Everyone pitched everything they could at the ogre as it charged. The air between hero and foe was a hailstorm of Eldon's darts, Belisent and Daelin's sling stones, and arrows from Aethelis and Cleo. The ogre fell before it could close the gap. The party was then able to mop up the remaining orcs. Afterward, they gathered their spoils, Fendak's gear, and Fendak himself before heading back to Easthaven.

Another disappointing drop. Nobody in the party has a lore greater than 10, but there was an enchanted dagger in a chest that I knew to be a fire dagger with a really low proc rate. Literally any other drop for this chest would have been better.

Spoiler: Catching some zzz's

They raised Fendak at the temple. He took it better than expected. One would think that dying, especially for the first time, would give a new adventurer pause. But, after a quick spell of coughing and sputtering, he dusted himself off and was ready to get back on track. Most of the Bears were a little battered for the experience along with Fendak. They decided to lick their wounds before reporting back to Hrothgar. They had two options for rooms at the Snowdrift Inn. There were the peasant rooms that most of them were used to, and then fancier merchant class rooms. Aethelis and Daelin were more accustomed to the merchant class level of comfort but frugal Eldon and Fendak were perfectly comfortable with the most basic of accommodations. Cleo figured that the price of an inn was no object, especially considering their current coffers, and wanted to live a little with the nicer rooms. Belisent personally preferred more humble lodgings. They were at an impasse, but Belisent ultimately relented. Her rationale was that everyone needed to be comfortable so the party could be in their finest form. They all agreed to the standard of merchant lodgings, but would not indulge in finer accommodations should any arise.

They took stock of their spoils during their rest. Aside from the gold in the orcs' purses, they found some gems and other trinkets worth selling. They found a magical dagger, but Aethelis did not yet have the means to discern its nature. They also found a few scrolls, including a couple that Cleo 'found in the cave' (but were actually from Pomab's). The elf hesitated over adding them to his spellbook. He didn't reveal this to the others, but the magic he had learned so far, he learned with the help of potions. Without that help, he was only a fair student of the arcane. Nevertheless, he took a chance with the Sleep spell. It would have been immensely helpful in the orcs' cave and was worth the risk. Fortunately, he was able to comprehend the arcane writings and add the spell to his arsenal.

With no more unfinished business in town, the Grace of Bears was ready to depart on Hrothgar's expedition. Little did they know, it would be a long time before they saw Easthaven again, and they would be quite different adventurers by then.

Inn levels do nothing in this game. But, even in the other games, the minor boost to natural healing was negligible. I guess it's just a roleplaying opportunity. I was fine with taking a chance (65%) on that Sleep spell. I figured it would help in the goblin valley, and if I tanked scribing it, I think Orrick sells another. At this point, everyone but Aethelis is level 2. Cleo's skill points were split between locks and traps and I will likely continue to do so until traps are maxed out. Stealth will come after both locks and traps hit 100, though I expect to depend on invisibility before stealth is viable. Besides, you can't search for traps effectively under stealth anyway. Eldon landed a great HP roll for level 2 and is up to 19. Fendek managed a respectable 15. Belisent landed in the middle with 12 and Daelin fell a little short at 11. I am more concerned about Belisent, though, as she is the one likely to end up in the front line at times.

 

[JustKneller]

Question: Are you going to use core spell-scribing rules?

Basically, yes. There were no scribing rules in B/X, but you (generally) couldn't scribe from scrolls. I've frequently heard about house rules to adjust this, though. For this game, despite the B/X concept, I think allowing for the scribe check adds to the risk and strategy. Generally speaking, I will be holding out for potions of genius, which will give Aethelis a 95% chance of success. If I lose a spell, I lose the spell, so it goes. Even a 1-in-20 chance to lose a precious spell is a little harrowing. There are very few other ways to increase Int further, though. I think the other options are to stack (limited) potions, get a cursed item that raises Int later in the game, and maybe one or two things from the expansion. Such is the life of a classic gamer!

Also, if this run works out, you'll be proving that power-gaming is completely unnecessary to beat an Infinity Engine game, and that you can run a role-play party with few stat bonuses and a lot of stat penalties and still succeed.

I think it's going to be fine. I've played teams that were optimized in some way or another and have totally steamrolled this game to the point of boredom. Even some of my challenge runs turned out not to be a challenge. I think an 'average' party will still make it, but they are going to have a delightfully rough road getting there. That's what I really want, though. The harder wins feel the most earned.

 

[JustKneller]

TLDR: Yes, I am that kind of nerd, and proud of it.

In the words of Job (not the Bible, but Arrested Development), I have made a terrible mistake. Ok, not really, But, there was something that bothered me about Fendak and I couldn't put my finger on it. Fortunately, I have a two-year-old going through a massive sleep regression, so I had a solid hour and a half of sitting in the dark just now so she would fall asleep in her bed. I used that time ever so wisely and researched the Dwarven Valley and other related things. I felt a little weird having Fendak moonlight as a lumberjack. I mean, how many jobs does the guy need? But, I figured dwarves love axes and hammers and that was the best way to support it with the concept. However, there are some problems here. First, Kelvin's Cairn, where you would find the Dwarven Valley is not forested at all. Icewind Dale in general, as the name implies, is not a terribly verdant place. The nearest thing to a forest is a solid day's travel away, part of a primarily human settlement, and just not very big. It's the Lonelywood Forest by Lonelywood, actually. Also, it didn't make sense for him to swinging around an axe with his mediocre strength. He can barely lift one at Str 11. It was also a martial weapon, which doesn't match his backstory. Meanwhile, how I wrote in the dagger (I changed his backstory, btw) does more to support his concept than the axe does. That being said, I pulled a Baldur's Gate and retconned him a touch, using Dalekeeper to move his pips. And, for the record, it has nothing to do with the crappy dagger I found in the orc cave (with its 15% chance to proc a little fire damage, though I still have yet to ID it). Basic weapons just make more sense with these characters. Frankly, I think the flail on Eldon is a bit of a stretch, but it matches his portait so what the hell, right?

 

[O_Bruce]

If Fendak's death was of any indicaiton, we already see how stats of your characters matters. This is going to be very interesting run to follow.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: Sole survivors again

The expedition took an unexpected turn and the Grace of Bears found themselves to be the only survivors of catastrophe again. This time, though, it was not the Bear tribe that saved them. The party was not used such hard travel off roads and through the snow and had soon found themselves bringing up the rear. When the expedition was ambushed, they were at the edge of the avalanche and avoided the brunt of it.

Looks like those low Constitution scores are already paying off...

Spoiler: Gobsmacked

The valley was teeming with goblins. While they were weak on their own, they are deceptively dangerous in greater numbers. The party advanced carefully so as not to catch the attention of too many at a time. This didn't stop a number of them from calling for help at times.

Spoiler: Kuldahar camp

The Bears were not going to make it to Kuldahar as quick a they hoped. The goblins in the valley took their toll and the Bears needed to recuperate. They could have pressed on to Kuldahar, but they suspected the goblins had an encampment to the north and wanted to clear this pass, as any good adventurer would.

Spoiler: Say hello to my little friends

Sure enough, there was a larger group of goblins where they suspected. This was a fight that proved the Grace of Bears have come together as adventurers. Without anyone saying anything, they knew what to do. Eldon and Fendak rushed the two squads of skirmishers and slowly drew them together to surround them. This was not folly, but a setup so that the goblins were close enough for Aethelis to drop a sleep spell on the bunch. While that was happening, Belisent rushed the first archer with Daelin and Cleo on ranged support. With the skirmishers down, Eldon and Fendak took out the leader and then spread out and take on other archers. Seeing their ranks broken so quickly broke the morale of the conscious goblins. Their panic took them off their bows and they ran around helter skelter, which let Aethelis, Cleo, and Daelin pick them off one by one. Belisant stayed with them in case any goblin came to their senses. Meanwhile, Eldon and Fendak returned to the sleeping skirmishers to dispatch them. Despite the goblin's overwhelming numbers (it was more than 2-to-1 against the Bears), this fight turned out better than expected.

I find this to be a deceptively tough fight for this stage of the game. If I recall correctly, it's six archers and eight skirmishers total. And, archers are twice as dangerous as skirmishers due to bows having better APR. This basically works out to 20d8 of potential damage coming at the party every round. If you min-max, it's not a big deal since the gobs will only hit on a 20, but this party has some real chances to take hits with their mediocre Dexterity all around. I think Eldon and Fendak had a 20% chance to get hit per attack and it was higher for the others. I'm not 100% sure how morale rules work, but I'm approaching it like I would tabletop. The first death and losing a leader are things that can trigger a morale break. So, a sleep spell and a morale break can turn that 20d8 to 0d8 pretty quick.

Spoiler: More orcs?

Before leaving the valley, they explored the old mill. It looked like it was ransacked recently by goblins and, once they were inside, apparently orcs. They found a sole survivor, a child, hiding in a basement closet. He would go to the temple of Illmater in Kuldahar to be cared for from here.

This is another good fight for this stage of the game. The goblin camp teaches you to control the space. This fight teaches you to improvise when you don't have the space. The orcs dropped the small shield +1. The cloak of protection would have been better, but would have also eventually been redundant once magical armors come into the picture. Once I can ID it, I'll probably send it Daelin's way and that will hold him for the rest of the game. In fact, I think that is only magical small shield (Daelin's strength only allows small shields and bucklers) in the core game.

On that note, it does not look like Strength requirements have actually been implemented in the game for most melee weapons and armor. I must have forgotten about that. Nevertheless, I will be playing as if the limits were functioning.

Spoiler: Ok, NOW the tutorial is over

With the growlings of viscous creatures now quieted in the valley, they could go to Kuldahar satisfied. They may not have found their own attackers, but at least they helped ensure the safety of the hamlet.

Spoiler: The great tree

The Grace of Bears took a moment to marvel at the great tree while exploring the town. They had only heard passing talk of it in Easthaven, but could not have imagined this.

Spoiler: I'll be back

They recognized the barbarian despite never having met him before. He had all the markings of the Tribe of the Bear. The party jumped at the opportunity to repay their saviors, but Hjollder did not think they were up for the task quite yet. The Grace of Bears told the shaman that they would be back to return the favor to his tribe.

This is probably my greatest criticism of the game, and it's not a strong one at that. The expansion content just doesn't fit into the core game (though BG has the same problem with ToSC). Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for the extra content, but the placement makes it tough to weave a solid narrative. My original reason for putting the Tribe of the Bear into their backstory was so they would have a personal reason to break from the main quest and take on the expansion. However, if you do the expansion in the middle of the main quest, you end up grossly over-leveled for the rest of the core game. My new plan will probably work out better. The Bears threw their hat in the ring to help out the tribe that saved them, Hjollder said they weren't ready for the task and to come back when they were more seasoned. I'll finish the main game, then import the party for the expansion as their next adventure. I think that was probably intended anyway, due to what happens with the Blade of Aihonen. I just hope I'm not too over-leveled for the expansion at that point. I don't recall ever waiting that long to do it.

Spoiler: Sometimes you want to go where nobody knows your name

They ended their tour of the town in the local tavern. Aside from an off-putting barmaid, it was much like any tavern in the Ten Towns.

Foreshadowing, anyone?

Spoiler: Do you think he can shapeshift into Winnie the Pooh and Tigger?

After resting up at the inn (which was run by a rather suspicious halfling), they met with the leader of the hamlet. Their tragic expedition was only the beginning of their adventure. From Kuldahar, the Bears needed to investigate the Vale of Shadows, where malevolent forces seem to have risen.

I was tempted to pick up Grease and attempt to scribe Chromatic Orb to help with the Vale. Aethelis' enchantment spells would not have much use in the Vale due to the undead and I think the yeti just barely out-level Sleep having an effect. However, I want to wait until I have a stack of scrolls to scribe and make it worth burning a potion.

 

[JustKneller]

I've been quite productive with this run, thanks to a catastrophic system failure at work. I'm not on the tech team myself, but I identified the problem pretty quickly and suggested a fix that would only take about an hour to implement. Instead, the tech team went in a different direction, broke the system more, had to fix that, then ultimately ended up solving the problem with what I suggested to begin with. I can't complain, though. It basically gave me about two days instead of a mere hour to play some IWD and get some other stuff done. Extra paid time off for the win!

Spoiler: I ain't afraid of no ghosts

The Vale of Shadows lived up to its name, what with the shadows that greeted the Grace of Bears. Both Belisent and Daelin invoked their patrons to turn them, but the shadows didn't even flinch.

I don't remember the specifics, but I vaguely recall IWD (and maybe all the IE games) using a different turn undead table than the core rules. In core, I believe you can turn undead up to two levels higher than you (albeit with low odds) and then start automatically turning undead when you are two levels higher than them (with dusting undead coming two levels after that). I think in IWD, you need to be a higher level to turn and then maybe another half dozen levels to dust them? Lesser shadows are probably 3 HD and so were my clerics at this point. No matter, shadows aren't bad if I take them one at a time. They don't seem to call for help, and if one of the front liners are hit with a curse, it's quick to wait it out before moving on.

Spoiler: Turn, turn, turn

Belisent and Daelin's undead turning fared better against skeletons in the crypt. It let the Bears choose their battles, for the most part. There was also the occasional zombie, ghoul, or ghast, but alone, they did not provide much of a challenge.

One cleric with turn undead thins out these hordes pretty easy. Two clerics with turn undead will repel everything and the party can pick off enemies at their leisure. Eldon and Fendak mostly held the front line with the clerics keeping most of the undead completely at bay. I think the littlefolk might have taken maybe two to three hits between them while clearing out the first three crypts.

Spoiler: It belongs in a museum

At one point, Belisent raised an issue with the group essentially pillaging the graves of the dead. It did cause them to take pause. They were taking anything of value simply because that is what adventurers do, but these are the resting places of those who passed and they were effectively disturbing their graves. They took some time to ponder the matter before Aethelis chimed in. His perspective was that they were not stealing from the dead as the dead have since risen and are now attacking the party (and other innocents). Now, it is just a bunch of useful supplies sitting in empty containers in a (now) empty crypt. Furthermore, if being buried with material possessions was essential to their eternal rest, then they probably would not have risen to begin with. It was a sound argument that nobody could rebut. Belisent reluctantly conceded, but did not feel good about it.

I actually rolled an opposed Intelligence check (blackjack roll under) between Belisent and Aethelis on this one. Thank god it passed or I would be leaving pretty much all the loot behind in the Vale. It wouldn't have been the end of the world, as most of the gear there would likely be replaced soon, but I would lose the only Invisibility spell in the game.

Spoiler: It's a trap

Cleo finally had a chance to show her worth. All those years of trapping rabbits has paid off as she was able to spot near invisible tripwires and other hazards in the crypts.

This will be the way until I get Invisibility, but IWD's Invisibility is the fussiest version of the spell, with the shortest duration, so it won't be a perfect solution either.

Spoiler: Our gracious host?

In one of the last crypts, they met an undead creature that could speak. It seemed to know nothing of Kuldahar, but also woud not allow the Bears to continue their investigation. The armored skeleton proved to be a tough adversary. Eldon took a fair number of hits, but Daelin was behind him every step of the way with healing magic.

Gotta love caster clerics...

Spoiler: Spell fail

After clearing a few crypts along with the shadows and yeti in the valley, they decided to return to Kuldahar for some much needed rest. At this point, Aethelis had accumulated a number of scrolls and a potion of genius to help study them. He was generally successful, though Chromatic Orb gave him some trouble. Fortunately, Orrick had a copy of the spell to sell and Aethelis comprehended it the second time around.

I'm fine with using potions to help learn a spell, but not so much with using them to circumvent the max spells per level limit. There's a difference between using a temporary buff for the temporary task of learning a thing versus using a temporary buff to permanently have the thing, if that makes sense. At Int 15, Aethelis will have a max of 11 spells per level and max spell level of 7, which really isn't bad. I'll be able to learn at least half of the spells for each level, and a lot of them are pointless (like Infravision or Protection from Petrification), kind of a pain to use effectively (Shout, Cone of Cold, Malavon's Rage), kinda weaksauce for their level (Shroud of Flame, Otiluke's Freezing Sphere), or otherwise not worth a spell slot (Luck, Trollish Fortitude, a lot of touch spells).

At this point, the party only has the final tomb. They did rather well in the Vale with random drops. The yeti chief dropped a +1 hammer for Fendak. His other potential drops would have been less helpful. Therik dropped a Ring of the Warrior, which is basically his only useful drop for this party. That went to Eldon. Belisent also picked up an enchanted mace in the yeti cave. Eldon is still short a magical weapon, which is essentially needed for the final tomb. Maybe I should move that ring to Fendak. Eldon won't even be able to hit the tougher opponents in the crypt. Might as well give Fendak more of an edge.

 

[JustKneller]

So, I have a growing problem with this game. The moments that are the best ones to get a screenshot for the play log are usually the moments where I am so focused on what I'm doing that I'm not even thinking of the play log.

The Black Wolf Temple is where this party concept shows its limits. Now that everyone has a few levels or so under their belt, you can see a real difference compared to an optimized party. Namely, I'm talking about hit points. I haven't been scumming rolls for anything. Random items, spell scribing, and level up hit points, the first roll gets it. Aethelis has 12hp at level 3/3 out of a possible 19(.5), which isn't bad, but he doesn't see any front line action. Belisent is actually doing pretty well at level 5 with 29 out of a possible 40 hit points. Cleo is in really good shape with 26/30, but she is also never in the fray. Daelin has 16/32 which is fine for the back line. It's Eldon and Fendak (who need the hit points) that worry me. Both are at level 4 and are at 25/40 (Eldon) or 22/40 (Fendak). Keep in mind that characters get max hit points at level 1, so average rolls would put them both at 32/40. I really hope this turns around.

Looking back at my character rolls, I realized I could have made some better choices. C started with 10/7/15/13/7/14 and F started with 8/14/14/13/12/9. If I moved C's Int to Str, I would have 12/7/15/9/7/14 and then move F's Wis/Int to Dex, I would have 8/17/14/9/10/9. F would have been a pretty good thief and C would be able to wear plate mail and use a medium shield. I really shot myself in the foot on that one.

That being said, this isn't explicitly a no reload run, but I'm not reloading on character deaths (they need to be raised) and I haven't yet decided what to do about a TPK. I could reload, but that's not how classic games work. I was thinking of just doing a no-reload run and seeing where that gets me. I put my party into google AI and asked what my odds were of making it. This is what it said:

Your chances of finishing a no-reload run with this party are extremely low (under 5%).

I flipped Cleo and Fendak as mentioned above and asked it again:

Your chances rise to about 15% to 20%, primarily because you fixed your Thief. However, the run remains heavily stacked against you.

That's a pretty big jump for such a small adjustment.

Oh, what the hell, let's make it a no reload run. You only live once, right?

In the meantime, the Bears just cleared the second area of the Black Wolf Temple and are about to head to the final area. I gave the Black Wolf Talisman to Eldon as he has been my main point fighter (with his whopping 25hp). We'll see how it goes, but I recall the very next area is pretty brutal right when you enter. Fingers crossed!

 

[O_Bruce]

So, I have a growing problem with this game. The moments that are the best ones to get a screenshot for the play log are usually the moments where I am so focused on what I'm doing that I'm not even thinking of the play log.

Relatable!

 

[JustKneller]

One second thought, I haven't been forgetting to screenshot. You see, this is a classic D&D concept, right? And, classic D&D is all theater of the mind. So, in order to fully capture that experience, the play log is theater of the mind, too. Yeah, that's the ticket!

We finished the Black Wolf Temple. The third area was not as bad as I expected. The clerics had animate dead at this point and so they became fodder for the imbued wights and skeletal mage. With undead turning, the clerics were also able to keep all the riffraff at bay so the rest of the team could focus on the fodder. Belisent was fighting with Eldon and Fendak as often as she was turning. The Bears soon found themselves in front of Kresselack. That meant a frigid barmaid was their next stop.

At the mouth of the cave, Aethelis turned Fendak invisible so he could get behind Lysan, the clerics then summoned some skeletons to cover their flank, followed by a bless spell because, why not? Lysan, as always, wouldn't be deterred so she conjured some yetis and the fight ensued. It didn't go well until it did. Aethelis attempted a color spray, but only hit a single yeti with it. Most of the party tried to take Lysan down with ranged weapons, but she could only be hit with magical weapons, which meant only Fendak's enchanted hammer and the handful of +1 arrows (Aethelis) and stones (Daelin) could have an effect. By the time the Bears realized this, the yetis had taken out the skeletons. Eldon threw himself at a group of three of them, with Belisent protecting him from evil first. There was a lone yeti on the other side of the cave, but by the time he took out the skeleton keeping him busy, the three fighting the yetis took one of them down which caused the morale to break for the one at their rear. Aethelis and Daelin soon ran out of enchanted arrows and stones. Daelin went to healing Eldon, who needed it at this point. Aethelis cast a (failed) Chromatic Orb at Lysan then took to his bow to help with the yetis. This left Fendak alone against Lysan. She only had a single spell left and it was silence, which hit most of the party, but didn't matter at this point. Lysan went after Fendak in melee, but she was pretty battered at that point and didn't last long. After she went down, Fendak helped with the two remaining yetis, one of which was still in panic. Eldon, Belisent, and Fendak were pretty battered by the end of this one, but they were still standing, so that was all that mattered.

The Bears reported back to Kresselack and took their lack of information and rewards back to Kuldahar. His random drop is one of very few opportunities for an Int boosting item. However, it would have been a sword, which would need to be equipped at all times, to give Aethelis access to level 8 spells. He is much more valuable backing up with a bow, so no matter.

Back in Kuldahar, the Bears recouperated and took stock of their supplies and finances. Conlan altered Kresselack's plate armor, free of charge, to fit Eldon. They also had enough to buy the Helm of the Trusted Defender (Aethelis saving thousands on it thanks to Friends). There wasn't much else to do, so they reported to Arundel to get their next lead.

Aethelis (L 3/3, 14/x̄20 hp, AC 8, k% 17, FS: Sleep) - Helmet, Bracers of Defense A.C. 8, Long Sword +1, Short Bow +1
Belisent (L 5, 29/x̄22 , AC 4, k% 4, FS: CLW) - helmet, splint mail, medium shield, mace +1, sling +1
Cleo (L 6, 29/x̄24.5, AC7, k% 6) - studded leather armor, ring of shadows, dazer, short bow +1
Daelin (L 5, 18/x̄22 , AC 6, k% 2, FS: CLW) - helmet, leather armor +1, small shield, club, sling +1
Eldon (L 5, 28/x̄30 , AC -3, k% 37) - helm of the trusted defender, plate mail, large shield, mantle of the coming storm, black wolf talisman, gauntlets of weapon skill, flail, darts, hammer darts, beserker darts
Fendak (L 5, 23/x̄30 , AC 2, k% 31) - helmet, splint mail, stoutward (small shield +1), ring of the warrior, warhammer +1, throwing daggers

x̄ is what my hit points would be if I was getting average rolls, keeping in mind that characters get max hp at 1st level. k% is the kill percentage for that character, which will likely never add up to 100 due to rounding.

I'm still kicking myself for messing up the C and F builds. There's a mean part of me that's just hoping for a TPK at this point.

 

[BelgarathMTH]

Good run logs - very interesting to read.

Your mention of attempting a Chromatic Orb on Lysan made me think of something: If you get lucky and land a stunning Chromatic Orb on Yxonomei, that could be your ticket through that fight. I know a single-class mage would have a chance for stun by then, but I'm not sure about a fighter-mage multi-class.

 

[JustKneller]

Your mention of attempting a Chromatic Orb on Lysan made me think of something

That's a good point. My math was bad in O_Bruce's post, but looking at it again, if you hit her with GM, prayer, and curse, you have a 21% for CO to stick, but if you follow up with more, the chance of CO proccing is 38% by round 2, 51% by round 3, 62% by round 4. That's a good number of rounds for just a fair chance, but if you can also slow her down with web/entangle/grease, you just might have the breathing room for it. You have to be careful in classic, though. CO petrifies at levels 10 and 11, which I think loses the party about 45k xp for a kill.

 

[JustKneller]

Speaking of bad math...

Spoiler: Getting my ass handed to me

This shot was taken just before Eldon was slain. I thought that, even with their great strength, verbeeg THAC0 was 15. So, an AC of -5 (his current AC plus protection from evil) would mean the verbeeg's could only hit on a 20. Sure enough, the two verbeeg landed crits in the first round of combat, mainly because IE engine dice just hate me. But, then they hit on the 17. Their strength must factor in differently than I expected. I figure they must have at least 18/00 Str for that 17 to hit. Daelin rushed up to heal him, but couldn't get the spell off before the killing blow. Aethelis had also tried chromatic orb twice, but both failed to So, he quickly tossed Eldon and his gear to the other party members. Pretty impressive feat with his 7 Str. Must have been the adrenaline. The party then high tailed it back to Kuldahar to reconsider their strategy. It cost a whopping 1100 gp to raise Eldon. I thought Illmater was supposed to take hardship from people, not create it They considered dragging Eldon through the avalanche in Kuldahar pass back to Easthaven where raises only cost 100gp. Unfortunately, that wasn't really an option.

The Bears needed to get their act together, if only because they didn't have the money to raise anyone again. Their options were limited. Even with protection from evil, Eldon can't tank. Verbeeg are too big for charm person. Rigid Thinking would be of minimal help. Web could hold one and they could use ranged weapons, but Aethelis can only pull off two of those a day. They would have to fall back after every other fight and it would take weeks to clear the place. Lastly, the clerics have animated dead, which could provide a distraction at least, assuming the skeletons could hold the aggro (which is unlikely when it is kiting and the party is attacking at range).

Our heroes aren't giving up. Next, they will stop by Orrick and Oswald's. Surely, they will have something to help turn the tide in their favor.